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" Yes and no. Yes they must have done due diligence. No because their risk exposure is different from shareholders, as likely there is collateral tied to the loan. So I am neutral on this."
Yes, DEG' s loan is collateralised.
Details of loan is explained in Annual Report 2016, page 89, note (h).
It is secured on land, building and machinery of Garden Fresh (Hubei) Food & Beverage Co, and corporate guaranteed by Sino Grandness.
Does it provide some comfort that Garden Fresh business is real, at least for Garden Fresh (Hubei) Food & Beverage Co. ?
The effective interest of this term loan is about 5% (disclosed in note (h)).
In view of high compound interest of 20% and 25% of Convertible Loan, and upcoming Preferential Share interest of 7% or 9%, personally, I think DEG' s loan interest rate is low and helpful to overall Sino Grandness capital stucture.
Yes, DEG' s loan is collateralised.
Details of loan is explained in Annual Report 2016, page 89, note (h).
It is secured on land, building and machinery of Garden Fresh (Hubei) Food & Beverage Co, and corporate guaranteed by Sino Grandness.
Does it provide some comfort that Garden Fresh business is real, at least for Garden Fresh (Hubei) Food & Beverage Co. ?
The effective interest of this term loan is about 5% (disclosed in note (h)).
In view of high compound interest of 20% and 25% of Convertible Loan, and upcoming Preferential Share interest of 7% or 9%, personally, I think DEG' s loan interest rate is low and helpful to overall Sino Grandness capital stucture.
Yes and no. Yes they must have done due diligence. No because their risk exposure is different from shareholders, as likely there is collateral tied to the loan. So I am neutral on this.
Ckckck ( Date: 11-Jul-2017 10:47) Posted:
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Thks guys for sharing. This part about new investor shares is not well explained by sg. It looks like it is not necessarily tied to ipo. The bondholders are giving sg 15 mths to find a new investor to pump in capital, failing which they have the right to compel sg to redeem the preference shares at 9% interest. I hope my understanding is correct.
SgTrader17 ( Date: 10-Jul-2017 23:24) Posted:
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I read both for and against argument toward investing Sino Grandness at current market price.
I will not venture into subjective argement.
Sometime in Sept 2016, Garden Fresh obtained a US$25m (about RMB170m) 7-year loan from the German development bank, DEG.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Investment_Corporation
Unlike the bondholder, DEG has no vested interest in Garden Fresh and no upside (other than interest payment).
May I assume DEG has done its due diligence before granting the loan?
Reason of asking is to solicit idea so that I am not blindsided of this faith (hopefully not a misplaced one).
I will not venture into subjective argement.
Sometime in Sept 2016, Garden Fresh obtained a US$25m (about RMB170m) 7-year loan from the German development bank, DEG.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Investment_Corporation
Unlike the bondholder, DEG has no vested interest in Garden Fresh and no upside (other than interest payment).
May I assume DEG has done its due diligence before granting the loan?
Reason of asking is to solicit idea so that I am not blindsided of this faith (hopefully not a misplaced one).
Longists,
Let's just igone the hopeless who kept postings.
We share what we have.
Thanks
Cheers.
Let's just igone the hopeless who kept postings.
We share what we have.
Thanks
Cheers.
Kept repeating old qn.
Lame.
Go back to history thread.
Ha.
Lame.
Go back to history thread.
Ha.
Even Noble despite all its perceived problems found a new chng kay. SinoG leh? Sj longists here ah lol
cccx123 ( Date: 11-Jul-2017 08:24) Posted:
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And this isn't about getting a private placement at dirt cheap prices because the market price is alr dirt cheap lol. But i don't see anyone buying despite all the alleged persistent accumulation being observed by certain parties here.
The ppl here all outsourced research already. My friends working in Beijing and Shanghai have never heard of GF lol. Even the Thais stopped buying despite the lowly price. All just waiting to get out only. Asdew must be thanking its lucky stars for getting out in time lol. Even Huang himself isn't buying lol imagine that...
HuathuatLeo ( Date: 11-Jul-2017 08:00) Posted:
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Sorry ah, paiseh make you all angry.
Next time please attend the quarterly briefing/AGM and talk to some of the directors, IR and others from the team and ask them...eh bro, PE so low, price so cheap, you got buy or not? Don' t ask Huang. lol.
if they didnt buy , ask them why? If they bought, then hor say liao..
Next time please attend the quarterly briefing/AGM and talk to some of the directors, IR and others from the team and ask them...eh bro, PE so low, price so cheap, you got buy or not? Don' t ask Huang. lol.
if they didnt buy , ask them why? If they bought, then hor say liao..
ETHunter ( Date: 11-Jul-2017 01:40) Posted:
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How many % share for rmb210m?
ETHunter ( Date: 10-Jul-2017 23:19) Posted:
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Thanks for sharing, Bro.
Those ppl whom you have advised, same as I have asked to leave this thread alone, are just showing how ignorant and childish he/they are.
If no confident in Sino Grandness or GF, just let go and go buy other shares.
Keep talking and repeating about the past on SiNi Grandness, shows apparently the lack of personal integrity and living human respect.
The earth is round, just watch your back, and don't they think that making fool of themselves are fun and will never be in trouble.
Those ppl whom you have advised, same as I have asked to leave this thread alone, are just showing how ignorant and childish he/they are.
If no confident in Sino Grandness or GF, just let go and go buy other shares.
Keep talking and repeating about the past on SiNi Grandness, shows apparently the lack of personal integrity and living human respect.
The earth is round, just watch your back, and don't they think that making fool of themselves are fun and will never be in trouble.
ETHunter ( Date: 11-Jul-2017 01:40) Posted:
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Thanks for sharing, Bro.
Those ppl whom you have advised, same as I have asked to leave this thread alone, are just showing how ignorant and childish he/they are.
If no confident in Sino Grandness or GF, just let go and go buy other shares.
Keep talking and repeating about the past on SiNi Grandness, shows apparently the lack of personal integrity and living human respect.
The earth is round, just watch your back, and don't they think that making fool of themselves are fun and will never be in trouble.
Those ppl whom you have advised, same as I have asked to leave this thread alone, are just showing how ignorant and childish he/they are.
If no confident in Sino Grandness or GF, just let go and go buy other shares.
Keep talking and repeating about the past on SiNi Grandness, shows apparently the lack of personal integrity and living human respect.
The earth is round, just watch your back, and don't they think that making fool of themselves are fun and will never be in trouble.
ETHunter ( Date: 11-Jul-2017 01:40) Posted:
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HHL and company,
I just dont know why you cannot give the SG management a break or should I say, grant us all forumers, esp those vested a kind thought. Many have been frustrated by your constant fake assumptions and insinuation..
Pls provide us some good view points to think about rather than chuning out old sick stories and asking nosensical questions..
Eg. Why popiah king and his son and Hui Yuan boss not buying??
What is the point?
If they want to buy at dirt cheap prices or at unfavorable terms, is Huang and team so stupid to sell it to them? Will SHs approve?
To a good businessman, no deal is better than a lousy deal!
Imo SinoG is not distressed to take any bad deals today.
As announced, Goldman Sachs and CDIB are giving up their rights as bondholders to go for preference shares.
Are they stupid to buy these shares if they know nothing is going to happen??
In fact, they get cash out RMB535 million or S$109 mil today if they choose to.
BUT they chose to exchange S$109 mil to buy just 16.88% of GF when the IPO listing is successful. This is the valuation for GF today. And so effectively, SG owns $537.5mil based on 83.12%.
But i believe the real value for GF is when the listing is done and has to be much more. Otherwise GS and CDIB wont be interested nor keen to take the risks. They could have just walk away with their $109 mil. Think about it.
So what is the real value?
Back of the envelope calculation, 2016 SinoG nett profit reported is RMB578 mil or S$132.9 mil.
The GF beverage business contributed more than 70% of rev and profits and should be worth about $93 mil.
Upon IPO listing and using conservative 15 PER, the GF value is about S$1.395 bil.
The GS and CDIB stake of 16.88% will then be worth S$235.5 mil.
SinoG 83.12% stake will be S$1.159 bil or a cool $1.16 per share.
Without doubt, SinoG management will endeavor to make it happen to unlock its real worth.
Currently, SinoG NTA per share is 72.8c and EPS 17.4c.
It is trading at 23c to 25c or a pathetic PE at 1.4
As mentioned before, this is an undervalued counter imo that many ppl has largely ignored. In fact, lot of negative naysayers shouting it down .. so to buy cheap?
Nothing is 100% but, with the seasoned investors like GS and CDIB decided to placed their S$109 mil bets on this horse, i doubt we are in the wrong company..
This is just my 2c and not to induce buying or selling and please dyod. Good luck to all.
I just dont know why you cannot give the SG management a break or should I say, grant us all forumers, esp those vested a kind thought. Many have been frustrated by your constant fake assumptions and insinuation..
Pls provide us some good view points to think about rather than chuning out old sick stories and asking nosensical questions..
Eg. Why popiah king and his son and Hui Yuan boss not buying??
What is the point?
If they want to buy at dirt cheap prices or at unfavorable terms, is Huang and team so stupid to sell it to them? Will SHs approve?
To a good businessman, no deal is better than a lousy deal!
Imo SinoG is not distressed to take any bad deals today.
As announced, Goldman Sachs and CDIB are giving up their rights as bondholders to go for preference shares.
Are they stupid to buy these shares if they know nothing is going to happen??
In fact, they get cash out RMB535 million or S$109 mil today if they choose to.
BUT they chose to exchange S$109 mil to buy just 16.88% of GF when the IPO listing is successful. This is the valuation for GF today. And so effectively, SG owns $537.5mil based on 83.12%.
But i believe the real value for GF is when the listing is done and has to be much more. Otherwise GS and CDIB wont be interested nor keen to take the risks. They could have just walk away with their $109 mil. Think about it.
So what is the real value?
Back of the envelope calculation, 2016 SinoG nett profit reported is RMB578 mil or S$132.9 mil.
The GF beverage business contributed more than 70% of rev and profits and should be worth about $93 mil.
Upon IPO listing and using conservative 15 PER, the GF value is about S$1.395 bil.
The GS and CDIB stake of 16.88% will then be worth S$235.5 mil.
SinoG 83.12% stake will be S$1.159 bil or a cool $1.16 per share.
Without doubt, SinoG management will endeavor to make it happen to unlock its real worth.
Currently, SinoG NTA per share is 72.8c and EPS 17.4c.
It is trading at 23c to 25c or a pathetic PE at 1.4
As mentioned before, this is an undervalued counter imo that many ppl has largely ignored. In fact, lot of negative naysayers shouting it down .. so to buy cheap?
Nothing is 100% but, with the seasoned investors like GS and CDIB decided to placed their S$109 mil bets on this horse, i doubt we are in the wrong company..
This is just my 2c and not to induce buying or selling and please dyod. Good luck to all.
HuathuatLeo ( Date: 10-Jul-2017 18:45) Posted:
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Bro,
To invest in GF Cayco shares, that means ... It must first confirm to get the listing approved, right?
Or investing in GF Cayco shares which are not on a listing condition? ...
Not too sure about that. Is listing a condition to be satisfied first?
To invest in GF Cayco shares, that means ... It must first confirm to get the listing approved, right?
Or investing in GF Cayco shares which are not on a listing condition? ...
Not too sure about that. Is listing a condition to be satisfied first?
ETHunter ( Date: 10-Jul-2017 23:19) Posted:
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From the restructuring agreement, the key points related to New investor Shares are:
iv) the Company shall seek new investors to invest in Garden Fresh Cayco shares for an aggregate minimum sum of RMB210 million within 15 months from the date of the 2017 Restructuring Agreement
vii) the redemption rate in respect of the 2011 Preference Shares and the 2012 Preference Shares shall be 9% per annum in the event of any breach by the Company of its obligations under the 2011 Preference Shares or 2012 Preference Shares (as the case may be), the subscription or purchase of the New Investor Qualifying Shares not being completed within 15 months from the date of the 2017 Restructuring Agreement or the failure to redeem or purchase any outstanding 2011 Preference Shares or 2012 Preference Shares according to the terms of the 2017 Restructuring Agreement
The condition is for issuing of mininium sum of RMB210 mil within 15 months to new investor/s. Failing which, the redemption rate shall be 9% instead.
iv) the Company shall seek new investors to invest in Garden Fresh Cayco shares for an aggregate minimum sum of RMB210 million within 15 months from the date of the 2017 Restructuring Agreement
vii) the redemption rate in respect of the 2011 Preference Shares and the 2012 Preference Shares shall be 9% per annum in the event of any breach by the Company of its obligations under the 2011 Preference Shares or 2012 Preference Shares (as the case may be), the subscription or purchase of the New Investor Qualifying Shares not being completed within 15 months from the date of the 2017 Restructuring Agreement or the failure to redeem or purchase any outstanding 2011 Preference Shares or 2012 Preference Shares according to the terms of the 2017 Restructuring Agreement
The condition is for issuing of mininium sum of RMB210 mil within 15 months to new investor/s. Failing which, the redemption rate shall be 9% instead.
Tonylee ( Date: 10-Jul-2017 22:14) Posted:
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Bro, my average out is definitely higher than your purchase price.
Maybe, I shld say, much higher.
I bought highest was 70cts.
This stock is been shorted down badly due to IPO delays and bonds repayments issue + high interest costs.
Now if to do a reality check, the share price is really low. Comparing to its average of 40 to 50cts during those days.
The bond restructuring deal has bring the interest payments substantially lower and if you believe what is stated, mgt will take the best efforts to resubmit for listing in HK exchange.
I don't wish to debate further with those hypocrites here, who don't invest in Sino Grandness but talked down the stock so much.
But, I will just hold and let time gives the actual answer.
No need to hear these hypocrites talk, cos talk is cheap.
I will monitor the share price in July, Aug and Sept.
Shld have at least some recovery, with the bond deal at a cost saving outcome instead of paying higher interest.
Maybe, I shld say, much higher.
I bought highest was 70cts.
This stock is been shorted down badly due to IPO delays and bonds repayments issue + high interest costs.
Now if to do a reality check, the share price is really low. Comparing to its average of 40 to 50cts during those days.
The bond restructuring deal has bring the interest payments substantially lower and if you believe what is stated, mgt will take the best efforts to resubmit for listing in HK exchange.
I don't wish to debate further with those hypocrites here, who don't invest in Sino Grandness but talked down the stock so much.
But, I will just hold and let time gives the actual answer.
No need to hear these hypocrites talk, cos talk is cheap.
I will monitor the share price in July, Aug and Sept.
Shld have at least some recovery, with the bond deal at a cost saving outcome instead of paying higher interest.
peterz ( Date: 10-Jul-2017 21:37) Posted:
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Anyone can help shed light on my question?
Tonylee ( Date: 10-Jul-2017 17:54) Posted:
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Then what is the potential target price for this stock? I bought at 0.27, should I cut loss?
SgTrader17 ( Date: 10-Jul-2017 19:51) Posted:
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As mentioned,
1)you are not welcome in this thread
2)price check, it is fine, company well and fine, bond restructuring plan done deal. Next step will be another progression.
3)how thick skin you wan to be?
4)never spare a tot about that karma thingy? Or being sue one day? Either by Huang or by God hands?
5)disgusted n shameful of your presence each time, doing unnecessary allegations n false negative remarks on Sino Grandness based on its past matters and slamming it's presence plans.
6)god bless, if any still left to be with your side.
1)you are not welcome in this thread
2)price check, it is fine, company well and fine, bond restructuring plan done deal. Next step will be another progression.
3)how thick skin you wan to be?
4)never spare a tot about that karma thingy? Or being sue one day? Either by Huang or by God hands?
5)disgusted n shameful of your presence each time, doing unnecessary allegations n false negative remarks on Sino Grandness based on its past matters and slamming it's presence plans.
6)god bless, if any still left to be with your side.
HuathuatLeo ( Date: 10-Jul-2017 19:45) Posted:
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