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Trespasserx Senior	06-Aug-2014 17:32        Trespasserx About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	In the past, seriously, I think some of yr pov is really valid and insightful.. But lately I start to concur with what other forumers are saying that u getting a bit desperate in your argument... Dilution? You might as well say you put one packet of 3 in 1 coffee with 2l of water haha earlybird14      ( Date: 06-Aug-2014 17:19) Posted: So what should NOL holder worry? dilution! Trespasserx      ( Date: 06-Aug-2014 17:13) Posted: Micro and macro..macro micro.. To me I only see one thing, the market is now so erratic, yet NOL price has been relative stable.. If NOL is really so shit.. It will be shortist heaven.. Yet company who are earning money are being short down (banks, airline) in the past week. Simply because their share prices are too high. And it also imply that NOL price currently is way too low to even contemplating to short despite many feeling that the company is shit...
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earlybird14 Supreme	06-Aug-2014 17:30        earlybird14 About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Combined   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Agreed, present price is quite bottom which short will not be interested. However, as mentioned before, if NOL has intention to issue right or new share in next few months, this can explain why the short sell volume increaseing in past few month. Banker are instructed to short sell now and cover with new share given by NOL in the future to cover those existing shareholders who don' t want to exercise the right. THis is the main reason for KIV. NOL need cash. Where to find? no ideal yet! counter      ( Date: 06-Aug-2014 17:24) Posted: this is a valid point every firm, regardless of its profitability, has a value at this price, even earlybird who is one of the most pessimistic investors about nol, does not have a short position Trespasserx      ( Date: 06-Aug-2014 17:13) Posted: Micro and macro..macro micro.. To me I only see one thing, the market is now so erratic, yet NOL price has been relative stable.. If NOL is really so shit.. It will be shortist heaven.. Yet company who are earning money are being short down (banks, airline) in the past week. Simply because their share prices are too high. And it also imply that NOL price currently is way too low to even contemplating to short despite many feeling that the company is shit...
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counter Veteran	06-Aug-2014 17:24        counter About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Fundamental   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	this is a valid point every firm, regardless of its profitability, has a value at this price, even earlybird who is one of the most pessimistic investors about nol, does not have a short position Trespasserx      ( Date: 06-Aug-2014 17:13) Posted: Micro and macro..macro micro.. To me I only see one thing, the market is now so erratic, yet NOL price has been relative stable.. If NOL is really so shit.. It will be shortist heaven.. Yet company who are earning money are being short down (banks, airline) in the past week. Simply because their share prices are too high. And it also imply that NOL price currently is way too low to even contemplating to short despite many feeling that the company is shit...
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earlybird14 Supreme	06-Aug-2014 17:19        earlybird14 About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Combined   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	So what should NOL holder worry? dilution! Trespasserx      ( Date: 06-Aug-2014 17:13) Posted: Micro and macro..macro micro.. To me I only see one thing, the market is now so erratic, yet NOL price has been relative stable.. If NOL is really so shit.. It will be shortist heaven.. Yet company who are earning money are being short down (banks, airline) in the past week. Simply because their share prices are too high. And it also imply that NOL price currently is way too low to even contemplating to short despite many feeling that the company is shit...
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earlybird14 Supreme	06-Aug-2014 17:16        earlybird14 About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Combined   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	G6- NOL(Singapore or US), NYK(Japan), Hapag-Lloyd(Germany), MOL(Japan), OOIL(HongKong), Hyundai(Korea) CKYHE - COSCON(China), K Line(Japan), Yang Ming(Taiwan), Hanjin(Korea), Evergreen(Taiwan) P3 - Maersk(Denmark), MSC(Switzerland), CMA (France) Independent - China ship(China), UASC(UAE), Wan Hai(Taiwan), Hamburg Sud(Germany), PIL(Singapore) above are 3 container alliances and major independent operator. Do you think feel something is not right? Japan got  3, Taiwan got 3, Korea got 2, China got 3, Germany got 2, Singapore got 2. Obviously, internal country competition within the company resources giving the chance for Maersk, MSC and CMA a chance to grow big. It is time for Asia government to step forward and consolidate their own country container shipping company. The formation of G6 and CKYHE is more like against each other instead of fighting with P3. Painful consolidation in this industry is coming soon. Let' s see which name will be disappear in next 10 years! will it be you all favourite company NOL????
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Trespasserx Senior	06-Aug-2014 17:13        Trespasserx About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Micro and macro..macro micro.. To me I only see one thing, the market is now so erratic, yet NOL price has been relative stable.. If NOL is really so shit.. It will be shortist heaven.. Yet company who are earning money are being short down (banks, airline) in the past week. Simply because their share prices are too high. And it also imply that NOL price currently is way too low to even contemplating to short despite many feeling that the company is shit...
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earlybird14 Supreme	06-Aug-2014 16:47        earlybird14 About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Combined   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Who knows, may be last time they forget to bribe the officers. this time they learn the mistake and know how to go through the lobang. Since both of them try it again, it imply they have certain confidence to push it through. 14 years ago, when Malaysia built a port at Tanjung Pelepas, Maserk  was no.1, Evergreen  was no.2. Now evergreen is no.4 which only hold about 4% market share. which is 2 times behind CMA, 3 times behind MSC and 4 times behind Maersk. Asian container shipping company really did a bad job in this industry! Lucky03      ( Date: 06-Aug-2014 16:35) Posted: Then why need approval from China ? The original alliance was killed and they have to discard all works done earlier. If they don't get the approval then their vessel sharing will be illegal at China ports. earlybird14      ( Date: 06-Aug-2014 16:33) Posted: US and Europe have approved. Again turn to china, never exclude the possibility that China approve it. US and Europe imposed aiti dumping tariff on products from China. China is doing the same to protect their own thing. If Maersk and MSC want to go ahead with strategy merging of their container shipping business as one, China can' t stop them at all.
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spore1 Supreme	06-Aug-2014 16:43        spore1 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Looking good for all these developments .Think Nol will benefit too
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earlybird14 Supreme	06-Aug-2014 16:40        earlybird14 About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Combined   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	The motive of the agreement is very simple, instead of fighting for the new delivered container vessel capacity, they are working together to fill up their new container capacity together. both of them  owned the highest new order of container vessels.  The 2M capacity can  be increased to 3 or even 4M in next 10 years so long as 55 and 45% shares are agreed. 2 of them own 30% market share, due to this high market share, they can negotiate with container shipowner to obtain even cheaper chartered rate and improve their margin even higher. This is absolutely a monopoly. But what other can do, as a end users, who can offer cheaper container freight rate, where you will go, especially, the offer is from top 2 players!
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Lucky03 Elite	06-Aug-2014 16:35        Lucky03 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Then why need approval from China ? The original alliance was killed and they have to discard all works done earlier. If they don't get the approval then their vessel sharing will be illegal at China ports. earlybird14      ( Date: 06-Aug-2014 16:33) Posted: US and Europe have approved. Again turn to china, never exclude the possibility that China approve it. US and Europe imposed aiti dumping tariff on products from China. China is doing the same to protect their own thing. If Maersk and MSC want to go ahead with strategy merging of their container shipping business as one, China can' t stop them at all. Lucky03      ( Date: 06-Aug-2014 16:25) Posted: Indeed old news. Chinese official news media are already slamming the 2M alliance and high probability that it will be killed too.
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earlybird14 Supreme	06-Aug-2014 16:33        earlybird14 About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Combined   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	US and Europe have approved. Again turn to china, never exclude the possibility that China approve it. US and Europe imposed aiti dumping tariff on products from China. China is doing the same to protect their own thing. If Maersk and MSC want to go ahead with strategy merging of their container shipping business as one, China can' t stop them at all. Lucky03      ( Date: 06-Aug-2014 16:25) Posted: Indeed old news. Chinese official news media are already slamming the 2M alliance and high probability that it will be killed too. earlybird14      ( Date: 06-Aug-2014 16:14) Posted: Old news. But was a bad news. Holders intend to close their eye on bad news. http://www.recyclingtoday.com/maersk-msc-shipping-agreement.aspx Container shipping lines Maersk Line and Mediterranean Shipping Co. (MSC) have signed a 10-year vessel sharing agreement (VSA) called 2M. They say the new VSA will provide more efficient service on the Asia-Europe, trans-Atlantic and trans-Pacific routes. Both companies say the new agreement will replace all existing VSAs and slot purchase agreements that Maersk Line and MSC have on the three trade routes. Earlier in 2014, the two shipping lines had tried to form a three-way agreement called the P3 Network with Marseille, France-based CMA CMG. Approval for that network to operate in China was rejected in mid-June by the Chinese government, however, based on concerns that the P3 Network would control nearly 50 percent of container vessel capacity on the Europe-to-China route. The Maersk-MSC VSA will include 185 vessels with an estimated capacity of 2.1 million TEU (20-foot equivalent unit containers). The purpose of the cooperation is to share infrastructure (network) on the various trade routes, the two companies say. Maersk will contribute about 55 percent of the vessel space. &ldquo I am very pleased with our agreement with MSC," says Sø ren Skou, CEO of Denmark-based Maersk Line. " We share the same ambition to have as efficient and effective operations as possible. We will continue to provide our customers with competitive and reliable container shipping in the East-West trades at attractive prices. To do so we have to be innovative and take out cost while keeping a product that is best in class for our customers in terms of coverage, frequency and reliability." &ldquo MSC is pleased to have reached this agreement with Maersk Line,&rdquo says Diego Aponte, vice president of Geneva, Switzerland-based MSC. &ldquo It represents another positive step in our continual drive to enhance our operational network in terms of scope, scale, efficiency and reliability.&rdquo Aponte adds, &ldquo The 2M Vessel Sharing Agreement will enable us to achieve significant reductions in fuel consumption, driving down the carbon footprint of our shipping operations. With sustainability a key area of focus for MSC, we&rsquo re delighted that this vessel sharing agreement will mean major cuts in emissions while simultaneously enhancing our service to customers.&rdquo Maersk and MSC say the 2M VSA differs from the earlier proposed P3 alliance in that the combined market share of the two companies is smaller and the new agreement represents &ldquo a pure VSA without any jointly owned independent entity with executional powers.&rdquo Vessels deployed in the 10-year VSA will continue to be owned (or chartered) and operated by the two individual lines, say Maersk and MSC. The VSA is expected to start in early 2015 with the starting date conditional upon approvals by relevant authorities.
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earlybird14 Supreme	06-Aug-2014 16:27        earlybird14 About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Combined   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	The agreement will be last for 10 years. Almost all the 14000TEU above container vessels will be deployed on Asia-Europe Route. Those 8000 to 10000 TEU will change to   trans-Atlantic and trans-Pacific routes. Their efficiency route plan will be the nightmare for the rest of competitors. http://theloadstar.co.uk/mediterranean-shipping-company-maersk-container-shipping/ With the usual aversion to publicity relating to its fleet, Mediterranean Shipping Company, the world&rsquo s second-biggest ocean carrier, quietly took delivery of. the MSC London, the first of a series of six 15,908teu ultra-large container vessels (ULCVs), on long-term charter last week. Alphaliner reports that after a bunkering trip to Vladivostok the 399-metre MSC London will be deployed on the carrier&rsquo s Asia-Eastern Mediterranean &ldquo Tiger&rsquo service, where its arrival will break capacity records at the ports of Istanbul and Piraeus. No doubt these ports will make good use of the PR opportunities, confirming their &ldquo big ship ready&rdquo pledges, but in the longer term, the ship and its sisters look set to join one of MSC&rsquo s Asia-North Europe services. The MSC London represents a significant upgrade on the carrier&rsquo s largest ships to date in the 14,000teu MSC Daniela class. The carrier also has 18,400teu vessels included in its aggressive 40-ship/450,000teu orderbook. Elsewhere, Maersk Line took delivery of the 18,270teu Mayview Maersk, the tenth in its series of 20 Triple-E ships ordered from the DSME shipyard, South Korea. According to Alphaliner, the Mayview Maersk will join Maersk&rsquo s AE10 Asia-North Europe loop, replacing the 15,550teu Elly Maersk, which will be re-deployed on the AE2 string that is being gradually upgraded. The rationale for the P3 alliance, which would also have included French carrier CMA CGM&rsquo s 16,000teu CMA CGM Marco Polo class ships on the Asia-North Europe tradelane, was to combine volumes to fill these behemoths. And after the knock back from the Chinese regulators for the P3, the watered down 2M co-operation between Maersk and MSC has the same aim. With the delivery of more ULCVs, both carriers will have achieved the economy of scale needed to make the troubled Asia-Europe tradelane pay &ndash but only if good utilisation levels are maintained. Indeed, after the peak season these ships are likely to be scratching around to fill slots, and the laws of supply and demand suggests this will pull down spot rate levels, which ultimately influence new contracts come the start of 2015. Although there should be no problems with the 2M passing US and European regulators &ndash they had already green-lighted the P3 application &ndash the question remains as to whether the Chinese regulators will play ball in allowing the 2M to go ahead. Such is the regulatory uncertainty that nothing can be taken for granted, thus Maersk and MSC face anxious times before they can confidently put the final touches to their co-operation and ensure that they get some return on their mega-ship investments.   earlybird14      ( Date: 06-Aug-2014 16:14) Posted: Old news. But was a bad news. Holders intend to close their eye on bad news. http://www.recyclingtoday.com/maersk-msc-shipping-agreement.aspx Container shipping lines Maersk Line and Mediterranean Shipping Co. (MSC) have signed a 10-year vessel sharing agreement (VSA) called 2M. They say the new VSA will provide more efficient service on the Asia-Europe, trans-Atlantic and trans-Pacific routes. Both companies say the new agreement will replace all existing VSAs and slot purchase agreements that Maersk Line and MSC have on the three trade routes. Earlier in 2014, the two shipping lines had tried to form a three-way agreement called the P3 Network with Marseille, France-based CMA CMG. Approval for that network to operate in China was rejected in mid-June by the Chinese government, however, based on concerns that the P3 Network would control nearly 50 percent of container vessel capacity on the Europe-to-China route. The Maersk-MSC VSA will include 185 vessels with an estimated capacity of 2.1 million TEU (20-foot equivalent unit containers). The purpose of the cooperation is to share infrastructure (network) on the various trade routes, the two companies say. Maersk will contribute about 55 percent of the vessel space. &ldquo I am very pleased with our agreement with MSC," says Sø ren Skou, CEO of Denmark-based Maersk Line. " We share the same ambition to have as efficient and effective operations as possible. We will continue to provide our customers with competitive and reliable container shipping in the East-West trades at attractive prices. To do so we have to be innovative and take out cost while keeping a product that is best in class for our customers in terms of coverage, frequency and reliability." &ldquo MSC is pleased to have reached this agreement with Maersk Line,&rdquo says Diego Aponte, vice president of Geneva, Switzerland-based MSC. &ldquo It represents another positive step in our continual drive to enhance our operational network in terms of scope, scale, efficiency and reliability.&rdquo Aponte adds, &ldquo The 2M Vessel Sharing Agreement will enable us to achieve significant reductions in fuel consumption, driving down the carbon footprint of our shipping operations. With sustainability a key area of focus for MSC, we&rsquo re delighted that this vessel sharing agreement will mean major cuts in emissions while simultaneously enhancing our service to customers.&rdquo Maersk and MSC say the 2M VSA differs from the earlier proposed P3 alliance in that the combined market share of the two companies is smaller and the new agreement represents &ldquo a pure VSA without any jointly owned independent entity with executional powers.&rdquo Vessels deployed in the 10-year VSA will continue to be owned (or chartered) and operated by the two individual lines, say Maersk and MSC. The VSA is expected to start in early 2015 with the starting date conditional upon approvals by relevant authorities.
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Lucky03 Elite	06-Aug-2014 16:25        Lucky03 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Indeed old news. Chinese official news media are already slamming the 2M alliance and high probability that it will be killed too. earlybird14      ( Date: 06-Aug-2014 16:14) Posted: Old news. But was a bad news. Holders intend to close their eye on bad news. http://www.recyclingtoday.com/maersk-msc-shipping-agreement.aspx Container shipping lines Maersk Line and Mediterranean Shipping Co. (MSC) have signed a 10-year vessel sharing agreement (VSA) called 2M. They say the new VSA will provide more efficient service on the Asia-Europe, trans-Atlantic and trans-Pacific routes. Both companies say the new agreement will replace all existing VSAs and slot purchase agreements that Maersk Line and MSC have on the three trade routes. Earlier in 2014, the two shipping lines had tried to form a three-way agreement called the P3 Network with Marseille, France-based CMA CMG. Approval for that network to operate in China was rejected in mid-June by the Chinese government, however, based on concerns that the P3 Network would control nearly 50 percent of container vessel capacity on the Europe-to-China route. The Maersk-MSC VSA will include 185 vessels with an estimated capacity of 2.1 million TEU (20-foot equivalent unit containers). The purpose of the cooperation is to share infrastructure (network) on the various trade routes, the two companies say. Maersk will contribute about 55 percent of the vessel space. &ldquo I am very pleased with our agreement with MSC," says Sø ren Skou, CEO of Denmark-based Maersk Line. " We share the same ambition to have as efficient and effective operations as possible. We will continue to provide our customers with competitive and reliable container shipping in the East-West trades at attractive prices. To do so we have to be innovative and take out cost while keeping a product that is best in class for our customers in terms of coverage, frequency and reliability." &ldquo MSC is pleased to have reached this agreement with Maersk Line,&rdquo says Diego Aponte, vice president of Geneva, Switzerland-based MSC. &ldquo It represents another positive step in our continual drive to enhance our operational network in terms of scope, scale, efficiency and reliability.&rdquo Aponte adds, &ldquo The 2M Vessel Sharing Agreement will enable us to achieve significant reductions in fuel consumption, driving down the carbon footprint of our shipping operations. With sustainability a key area of focus for MSC, we&rsquo re delighted that this vessel sharing agreement will mean major cuts in emissions while simultaneously enhancing our service to customers.&rdquo Maersk and MSC say the 2M VSA differs from the earlier proposed P3 alliance in that the combined market share of the two companies is smaller and the new agreement represents &ldquo a pure VSA without any jointly owned independent entity with executional powers.&rdquo Vessels deployed in the 10-year VSA will continue to be owned (or chartered) and operated by the two individual lines, say Maersk and MSC. The VSA is expected to start in early 2015 with the starting date conditional upon approvals by relevant authorities.
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earlybird14 Supreme	06-Aug-2014 16:14        earlybird14 About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Combined   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Old news. But was a bad news. Holders intend to close their eye on bad news. http://www.recyclingtoday.com/maersk-msc-shipping-agreement.aspx Container shipping lines Maersk Line and Mediterranean Shipping Co. (MSC) have signed a 10-year vessel sharing agreement (VSA) called 2M. They say the new VSA will provide more efficient service on the Asia-Europe, trans-Atlantic and trans-Pacific routes. Both companies say the new agreement will replace all existing VSAs and slot purchase agreements that Maersk Line and MSC have on the three trade routes. Earlier in 2014, the two shipping lines had tried to form a three-way agreement called the P3 Network with Marseille, France-based CMA CMG. Approval for that network to operate in China was rejected in mid-June by the Chinese government, however, based on concerns that the P3 Network would control nearly 50 percent of container vessel capacity on the Europe-to-China route. The Maersk-MSC VSA will include 185 vessels with an estimated capacity of 2.1 million TEU (20-foot equivalent unit containers). The purpose of the cooperation is to share infrastructure (network) on the various trade routes, the two companies say. Maersk will contribute about 55 percent of the vessel space. &ldquo I am very pleased with our agreement with MSC," says Sø ren Skou, CEO of Denmark-based Maersk Line. " We share the same ambition to have as efficient and effective operations as possible. We will continue to provide our customers with competitive and reliable container shipping in the East-West trades at attractive prices. To do so we have to be innovative and take out cost while keeping a product that is best in class for our customers in terms of coverage, frequency and reliability." &ldquo MSC is pleased to have reached this agreement with Maersk Line,&rdquo says Diego Aponte, vice president of Geneva, Switzerland-based MSC. &ldquo It represents another positive step in our continual drive to enhance our operational network in terms of scope, scale, efficiency and reliability.&rdquo Aponte adds, &ldquo The 2M Vessel Sharing Agreement will enable us to achieve significant reductions in fuel consumption, driving down the carbon footprint of our shipping operations. With sustainability a key area of focus for MSC, we&rsquo re delighted that this vessel sharing agreement will mean major cuts in emissions while simultaneously enhancing our service to customers.&rdquo Maersk and MSC say the 2M VSA differs from the earlier proposed P3 alliance in that the combined market share of the two companies is smaller and the new agreement represents &ldquo a pure VSA without any jointly owned independent entity with executional powers.&rdquo Vessels deployed in the 10-year VSA will continue to be owned (or chartered) and operated by the two individual lines, say Maersk and MSC. The VSA is expected to start in early 2015 with the starting date conditional upon approvals by relevant authorities.
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earlybird14 Supreme	06-Aug-2014 12:56        earlybird14 About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Combined   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	just checked your good friend posts in the past 3 years in this thread, you will know what i mean. He posted all good news with good prospect, same articles  were taken and rewrite the figure  and repost on the newspaper or magazine, just to  create news for their  reporting job.  till now, nothing is changed. May be NOL moved out from headquarter, their luck will be better due to Feng Shui. This new is more positive and related. Just kidding. All the best.
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Lucky03 Elite	06-Aug-2014 12:49        Lucky03 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	These news that happen with date and time spanning last quarter can't be same news posted in past 3 years. They are current development and not historical facts. Yes, they may not be directly related to what NOL will report tomorrow for Q2 but when investing, we have to look at many factors, both macro and micro including the company core developments. When the tide is rising, most ships will rise but some will do it more gracefully while others will be a bumpy ones. Likewise, when tide is receding, some will flow with it while others get stuck and not all are within the control of the individual company. earlybird14      ( Date: 06-Aug-2014 12:10) Posted: Useful or not, hard to say. All are Same news which were posted in past 3 years. counter      ( Date: 06-Aug-2014 12:02) Posted: agree but i think that his info is very useful for the bros who hold a long-term view
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earlybird14 Supreme	06-Aug-2014 12:10        earlybird14 About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Combined   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Useful or not, hard to say. All are Same news which were posted in past 3 years. counter      ( Date: 06-Aug-2014 12:02) Posted: agree but i think that his info is very useful for the bros who hold a long-term view earlybird14      ( Date: 06-Aug-2014 09:52) Posted: All your flooded info are not really related for last quarter result which is recorded from March to June only. Anyway, good luck for the result.
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counter Veteran	06-Aug-2014 12:02        counter About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Fundamental   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	agree but i think that his info is very useful for the bros who hold a long-term view earlybird14      ( Date: 06-Aug-2014 09:52) Posted: All your flooded info are not really related for last quarter result which is recorded from March to June only. Anyway, good luck for the result. Lucky03      ( Date: 06-Aug-2014 07:57) Posted: 2 more days and we will see if NOL benefited from some of these positive developments.
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earlybird14 Supreme	06-Aug-2014 09:52        earlybird14 About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Combined   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	All your flooded info are not really related for last quarter result which is recorded from March to June only. Anyway, good luck for the result. Lucky03      ( Date: 06-Aug-2014 07:57) Posted: 2 more days and we will see if NOL benefited from some of these positive developments.
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Lucky03 Elite	06-Aug-2014 07:57        Lucky03 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	2 more days and we will see if NOL benefited from some of these positive developments.
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