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Demostation Supreme	21-Aug-2017 06:31        Demostation About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	So both way, subscribe or not subscribed, if the share price traded at $0.001 (0.1 cent) on open, you still will lose $4000 if you buy now. You only profit when it trades at around 0$0.002 giving you a profit of $5,000.   However, remember if you want to make this money, will the market let you make this money is another question. balasuperman      ( Date: 21-Aug-2017 00:58) Posted: in a rights issue it is not free. You have to pay 0.001cents for every rights share. So it means lets say u have 1million shares, u are entitled to 8 million rights share so u will have to pay $8000/- for the 8 million shares. So effectively u now have 9 million shares at a price of 0.005 cents for the first million that is $5000 plus $8000 for the rights share total will be $13000/- and if price drops to 0.001cents u share are only worth $9000/- so u are losing money n not making a profit. So if u renounce ur rights and edward or orther shareholdrs take up the rights they will be paying 0.001 cents for every right issue. so u still have 1 million share which u spent 5000/- buying but if price drops to 0.001cents it will be only worth $1000/- u lose $4000/.
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9hly99 Veteran	21-Aug-2017 05:09        9hly99 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	You can sell the rights without having to pay
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balasuperman Member	21-Aug-2017 00:58        balasuperman About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	in a rights issue it is not free. You have to pay 0.001cents for every rights share. So it means lets say u have 1million shares, u are entitled to 8 million rights share so u will have to pay $8000/- for the 8 million shares. So effectively u now have 9 million shares at a price of 0.005 cents for the first million that is $5000 plus $8000 for the rights share total will be $13000/- and if price drops to 0.001cents u share are only worth $9000/- so u are losing money n not making a profit. So if u renounce ur rights and edward or orther shareholdrs take up the rights they will be paying 0.001 cents for every right issue. so u still have 1 million share which u spent 5000/- buying but if price drops to 0.001cents it will be only worth $1000/- u lose $4000/.
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harlow Member	20-Aug-2017 22:52        harlow About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	i also dont think we are able to sell the rights. too much supply at 100billion. no real need to buy. i foresee after x-rights, the mother share will be 0.001, which will be the same price as the rights. one option could be we just sell off all we have, then we scoop the excess rights according to how much we can afford, as i think many people may not take up their entitlement, and start from square one again. Sooner or later, they will have to consolidate, then assuming that the new business takes off, things will start to look interesting.
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buddy8 Member	20-Aug-2017 18:56        buddy8 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Yup, that's why I don't think market believe we are able to sell the rights, else the share price will be pushed to 0.007. Still a good 10-20 percent gain even when ordinary share is at 0.007 if all rights can be sold.on the market. And I doubt Edward and wife will be picking up the rights in the market. They will have more then enough.
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gufeng Senior	20-Aug-2017 15:00        gufeng About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Just give an example below: 1) You buy 1 million mother share at $0.005 cost you $5k. You will get 8 million rights. If you can sell your entitled 8 million rights at $0.001 each = $8k. You stand to make $3k profit and still have 1 million mother share at hand. Do note mother share will confirm tumble upon ex rights date maybe towards $0.001/$0.002 so the 1 million mother share will worth ard $1k. This example is assuming you able to sell at the min price of $0.001. So whats the breakeven point for the mother share to be attractive? Anything $0.008 or below is attractive or safe bet. Got a clue yet why Edward bought at $0.006/$0.007?   buddy8      ( Date: 20-Aug-2017 12:31) Posted: The share is now 0.005, and we get 8 rights for 1 share.   If we can sell all the 8 rights @ 0.001, that would be too lucrative and the share now cannot be @ 0.005. Why would the right share price be attractive?   gufeng      ( Date: 19-Aug-2017 15:46) Posted: There is another option Since this is renouceable rights, your entitled rights will be listed and you can sell it. With the exercise price of $0.001 to covert the rights to ordinary share and free x3 warranty....this right share price shd be attractive to buy and sell
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buddy8 Member	20-Aug-2017 12:31        buddy8 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	The share is now 0.005, and we get 8 rights for 1 share.   If we can sell all the 8 rights @ 0.001, that would be too lucrative and the share now cannot be @ 0.005. Why would the right share price be attractive?   gufeng      ( Date: 19-Aug-2017 15:46) Posted: There is another option Since this is renouceable rights, your entitled rights will be listed and you can sell it. With the exercise price of $0.001 to covert the rights to ordinary share and free x3 warranty....this right share price shd be attractive to buy and sell. balasuperman      ( Date: 19-Aug-2017 13:41) Posted: with the ways things are going for mdr investors there are a few optio left 1 attend agm and reject the right cum warrants issue. 2 Hope the previous guy buy back the shares of mdr in the open market as he will be getting them at a discount to what was paid for his 1.2 billion shares at 6.5cts. He can buy more shares with it and can reemerge as the managing shareholder. 3 Pray that everything works out and that edward has the best interest of improving the company and he brings the company forward. 4 Sell everything even if at a loss so that the loss does not become greater. Best of luck people.
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gufeng Senior	19-Aug-2017 15:46        gufeng About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	There is another option Since this is renouceable rights, your entitled rights will be listed and you can sell it. With the exercise price of $0.001 to covert the rights to ordinary share and free x3 warranty....this right share price shd be attractive to buy and sell. balasuperman      ( Date: 19-Aug-2017 13:41) Posted: with the ways things are going for mdr investors there are a few optio left 1 attend agm and reject the right cum warrants issue. 2 Hope the previous guy buy back the shares of mdr in the open market as he will be getting them at a discount to what was paid for his 1.2 billion shares at 6.5cts. He can buy more shares with it and can reemerge as the managing shareholder. 3 Pray that everything works out and that edward has the best interest of improving the company and he brings the company forward. 4 Sell everything even if at a loss so that the loss does not become greater. Best of luck people.
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balasuperman Member	19-Aug-2017 13:41        balasuperman About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	with the ways things are going for mdr investors there are a few optio left 1 attend agm and reject the right cum warrants issue. 2 Hope the previous guy buy back the shares of mdr in the open market as he will be getting them at a discount to what was paid for his 1.2 billion shares at 6.5cts. He can buy more shares with it and can reemerge as the managing shareholder. 3 Pray that everything works out and that edward has the best interest of improving the company and he brings the company forward. 4 Sell everything even if at a loss so that the loss does not become greater. Best of luck people.
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marketreader Member	16-Aug-2017 13:53        marketreader About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Yeah $64m is a lot of money these days plus rights shares cannot pledge with banks for financing, needs to sit with SGX in cash. plus you are right, must top up his wife portion too. Also i read some years back major shareholders doing undertaking and whitewash cannot buy or sell shares in the market after rights accouncement made. Can only buy after rights completed. If any lawyers in the forum, can confirm this? balasuperman has good point why is he can buy not buying more from market now at 0.5c cheaper than 0.7c he paid.  Dinodx      ( Date: 16-Aug-2017 11:05) Posted: He already need to invest another 64million based on current holdings. Even more if u include his wife's holdings. balasuperman      ( Date: 16-Aug-2017 10:31) Posted: from the current share price it has already reflected that investors are not keen on the rights cum warrant issues and lots of people are trying to get out. Even edward who bought share at 0.007 censt is not keen at buying shares at a discounted price of 0.005cents. To those who are still heavily vested pls reject the share cum warrant issue in the upcoming AGM if u want the company to progress.
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Dinodx Member	16-Aug-2017 11:05        Dinodx About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	He already need to invest another 64million based on current holdings. Even more if u include his wife's holdings. balasuperman      ( Date: 16-Aug-2017 10:31) Posted: from the current share price it has already reflected that investors are not keen on the rights cum warrant issues and lots of people are trying to get out. Even edward who bought share at 0.007 censt is not keen at buying shares at a discounted price of 0.005cents. To those who are still heavily vested pls reject the share cum warrant issue in the upcoming AGM if u want the company to progress.
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balasuperman Member	16-Aug-2017 10:31        balasuperman About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	from the current share price it has already reflected that investors are not keen on the rights cum warrant issues and lots of people are trying to get out. Even edward who bought share at 0.007 censt is not keen at buying shares at a discounted price of 0.005cents. To those who are still heavily vested pls reject the share cum warrant issue in the upcoming AGM if u want the company to progress.
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fruitty Senior	15-Aug-2017 21:07        fruitty About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	I think what happened here is: 1. Be ready for current share float to be diluted to 0.1c 2. What really will make money is the warrants as long as shares can be sold at 0.1c. 3. For whatever share numbers you have now, buy as much rights that comes with cheaper than 0.1c warrants. As long as shares can be sold at 0.1c, you can breakeven with the rights but can win with the warrants. 4. Best scenario is not to be overly invested with current shares that will be diluted but get as much excess rights as possible.
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harlow Member	15-Aug-2017 20:43        harlow About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	okie thanks! too used to price over earnings, dun usually use market cap. all the best to you! I got out liao.  marketreader      ( Date: 15-Aug-2017 10:36) Posted: I know what you mean and some friends ask me the same thing. Share valuation theories sometimes look complicated but it is actually very easy and the Wall Street guys make it look complicated to justify their high bonuses.  PE is the same whether you use  market cap / earnings = PE or  share price / Earnings per share (EPS) = PE that' s because share price is market cap dividended by number of shares and EPS is earnings divided by number of shares  so basic algebra when you cancel our number of shares from both sides of the equation, it is the same ratio.  It' s like number of cars sold in singapore =  total number of cars in singapore 1m cars (market cap) new cars sold every year 100k (earnings) so number of new cars in Singapore everry year= 1/10 = 10% (this is like a earnings yield inverve of PE, or dividend yield if 100% earnings paid out) So the PE is = 10 the number of years to have 1m cars.     dividend by shares = is like number of population 5m people in singapore divided by by number of cars = 5m/1m = 0.2 people per car this is like the share price. or we think in terms of inverse 5 people per car. then new cars is per population (per capita) is 5m/100k = 0.02 people per new car. so the division of the 2 ratio 0.2/0.02 = 10. same PE. cause we just added the population to both sides of the equation. Sorry, bad example but i think you get the idea.       harlow      ( Date: 14-Aug-2017 23:22) Posted: No leh...I thought P/E ratio is stock price/earning per share, and earning per share is based on net profit/no. of shares? but you used market cap divided by net profit so if the no. of shares is v big, like 100 billion, and net profit is 3 million wouldnt the earning per share be v low? 3million/100billion? *confused
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dollarsense Veteran	15-Aug-2017 10:49        dollarsense About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Lol good call.. don't think it's bb la I think must be retailer trying their luck ? marketreader      ( Date: 15-Aug-2017 10:39) Posted: Funny. I noticed the trading someone threw 100 shares at 0.4c thats like $0.40 less than price of Coke can. You think they trying to make it look like 0.4c when all actually done at 0.5c. Maybe insiders collecting and want the price to be lower.  Weird.
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marketreader Member	15-Aug-2017 10:39        marketreader About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Funny. I noticed the trading someone threw 100 shares at 0.4c thats like $0.40 less than price of Coke can. You think they trying to make it look like 0.4c when all actually done at 0.5c. Maybe insiders collecting and want the price to be lower.  Weird.
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marketreader Member	15-Aug-2017 10:36        marketreader About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	I know what you mean and some friends ask me the same thing. Share valuation theories sometimes look complicated but it is actually very easy and the Wall Street guys make it look complicated to justify their high bonuses.  PE is the same whether you use  market cap / earnings = PE or  share price / Earnings per share (EPS) = PE that' s because share price is market cap dividended by number of shares and EPS is earnings divided by number of shares  so basic algebra when you cancel our number of shares from both sides of the equation, it is the same ratio.  It' s like number of cars sold in singapore =  total number of cars in singapore 1m cars (market cap) new cars sold every year 100k (earnings) so number of new cars in Singapore everry year= 1/10 = 10% (this is like a earnings yield inverve of PE, or dividend yield if 100% earnings paid out) So the PE is = 10 the number of years to have 1m cars.     dividend by shares = is like number of population 5m people in singapore divided by by number of cars = 5m/1m = 0.2 people per car this is like the share price. or we think in terms of inverse 5 people per car. then new cars is per population (per capita) is 5m/100k = 0.02 people per new car. so the division of the 2 ratio 0.2/0.02 = 10. same PE. cause we just added the population to both sides of the equation. Sorry, bad example but i think you get the idea.       harlow      ( Date: 14-Aug-2017 23:22) Posted: No leh...I thought P/E ratio is stock price/earning per share, and earning per share is based on net profit/no. of shares? but you used market cap divided by net profit so if the no. of shares is v big, like 100 billion, and net profit is 3 million wouldnt the earning per share be v low? 3million/100billion? *confused* marketreader      ( Date: 14-Aug-2017 23:16) Posted: Actually number of shares not relevant, it' s the market cap and absolute numbers more important. It' s like a pizza and how we sllice it. More slices, lower the price, but the weight or size of the entire pizza is the same. If the pizza is 1000 grams, if cut 10 shares then it' s 100 grams a piece, if cut 1000 slices it is 1 gram a piece. But total still 1000 grams. same with shares. So for price to move up it demands on buying power of demand. If 1bn sellers at 0.5c = $5m worth of sellers. If Noble 100m sellers at 40c =$40m worth of buyers need to buy up. So is 1bn harder to buy up or 100m? Cant' really say cause it depends on the share price. Even 1m shares of DBS is $20 so $20m worth is harder to buy up 1m DBS than 1bn MDR, of course DBS is a bluechip but that' s just example of number of shares less important than $$ value of the buy up. Some can argue lower value shares easier to buy up cause it looks cheaper to less sophisticated investors and also more affordable. Thats why usually after share consolidation the price drops, eventhough the pizza is the same size before or after share consolidation. So maybe MDR management trying to make their shares more affordable with more shares, like a reverse consolidation, maybe a positive even thought pizza size the same.   So MDR is like a market cap of $62.5m now. Profits $3m with $30m idle in cash. After rights if fully subscribed it is S$62.5m + $100m (assuming market cap for the cash is $1 for $1), then it would be $162.5m market cap with profits $3m and $130m in idle cash. So question is how much profit will the idle cash generate. I am using a standard realistic ROE of 5% so say $130m x 5% = extra profits of $6.5m + existing $3m = $9,5m profits. so projected PE is 162,5 / 9,5 = 17x PE for a penny stock looks ok in my opinion cause most penny stocks are lost making or breakeven. So price will go up if the PE expand to say 20x or 25x or if the profits grow and still maintaing the 17x PE. Most US stocks trade based on these calculations, but in Singapore we are all gamblers so maybe we don' t look at this, but comforting to know there is some fundamental support. Less risk of bankruptcy or delisting.    Again, sorry my opinions are all numbers and fundamentals, i dunno much about the speculation part to share.
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unique6 Member	15-Aug-2017 02:13        unique6 About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Fundamental   Mood: Yells: "Good time no bad stocks. Bad times no good stock? "
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	I think what he meant and the rest is trying to say is that going forward the Profit will be much more. Given the rights money is for investments.. and not payment of debts etc which will not increase earnings.. Yes big pool of shares.. but also come big pool of cash. The magic qn is what is the cash going to be use in? And what shareholders can expect. Keep this qn for the egm. harlow      ( Date: 14-Aug-2017 23:22) Posted: No leh...I thought P/E ratio is stock price/earning per share, and earning per share is based on net profit/no. of shares? but you used market cap divided by net profit so if the no. of shares is v big, like 100 billion, and net profit is 3 million wouldnt the earning per share be v low? 3million/100billion? *confused* marketreader      ( Date: 14-Aug-2017 23:16) Posted: Actually number of shares not relevant, it' s the market cap and absolute numbers more important. It' s like a pizza and how we sllice it. More slices, lower the price, but the weight or size of the entire pizza is the same. If the pizza is 1000 grams, if cut 10 shares then it' s 100 grams a piece, if cut 1000 slices it is 1 gram a piece. But total still 1000 grams. same with shares. So for price to move up it demands on buying power of demand. If 1bn sellers at 0.5c = $5m worth of sellers. If Noble 100m sellers at 40c =$40m worth of buyers need to buy up. So is 1bn harder to buy up or 100m? Cant' really say cause it depends on the share price. Even 1m shares of DBS is $20 so $20m worth is harder to buy up 1m DBS than 1bn MDR, of course DBS is a bluechip but that' s just example of number of shares less important than $$ value of the buy up. Some can argue lower value shares easier to buy up cause it looks cheaper to less sophisticated investors and also more affordable. Thats why usually after share consolidation the price drops, eventhough the pizza is the same size before or after share consolidation. So maybe MDR management trying to make their shares more affordable with more shares, like a reverse consolidation, maybe a positive even thought pizza size the same.   So MDR is like a market cap of $62.5m now. Profits $3m with $30m idle in cash. After rights if fully subscribed it is S$62.5m + $100m (assuming market cap for the cash is $1 for $1), then it would be $162.5m market cap with profits $3m and $130m in idle cash. So question is how much profit will the idle cash generate. I am using a standard realistic ROE of 5% so say $130m x 5% = extra profits of $6.5m + existing $3m = $9,5m profits. so projected PE is 162,5 / 9,5 = 17x PE for a penny stock looks ok in my opinion cause most penny stocks are lost making or breakeven. So price will go up if the PE expand to say 20x or 25x or if the profits grow and still maintaing the 17x PE. Most US stocks trade based on these calculations, but in Singapore we are all gamblers so maybe we don' t look at this, but comforting to know there is some fundamental support. Less risk of bankruptcy or delisting.    Again, sorry my opinions are all numbers and fundamentals, i dunno much about the speculation part to share.
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harlow Member	14-Aug-2017 23:22        harlow About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	No leh...I thought P/E ratio is stock price/earning per share, and earning per share is based on net profit/no. of shares? but you used market cap divided by net profit so if the no. of shares is v big, like 100 billion, and net profit is 3 million wouldnt the earning per share be v low? 3million/100billion? *confused* marketreader      ( Date: 14-Aug-2017 23:16) Posted: Actually number of shares not relevant, it' s the market cap and absolute numbers more important. It' s like a pizza and how we sllice it. More slices, lower the price, but the weight or size of the entire pizza is the same. If the pizza is 1000 grams, if cut 10 shares then it' s 100 grams a piece, if cut 1000 slices it is 1 gram a piece. But total still 1000 grams. same with shares. So for price to move up it demands on buying power of demand. If 1bn sellers at 0.5c = $5m worth of sellers. If Noble 100m sellers at 40c =$40m worth of buyers need to buy up. So is 1bn harder to buy up or 100m? Cant' really say cause it depends on the share price. Even 1m shares of DBS is $20 so $20m worth is harder to buy up 1m DBS than 1bn MDR, of course DBS is a bluechip but that' s just example of number of shares less important than $$ value of the buy up. Some can argue lower value shares easier to buy up cause it looks cheaper to less sophisticated investors and also more affordable. Thats why usually after share consolidation the price drops, eventhough the pizza is the same size before or after share consolidation. So maybe MDR management trying to make their shares more affordable with more shares, like a reverse consolidation, maybe a positive even thought pizza size the same.   So MDR is like a market cap of $62.5m now. Profits $3m with $30m idle in cash. After rights if fully subscribed it is S$62.5m + $100m (assuming market cap for the cash is $1 for $1), then it would be $162.5m market cap with profits $3m and $130m in idle cash. So question is how much profit will the idle cash generate. I am using a standard realistic ROE of 5% so say $130m x 5% = extra profits of $6.5m + existing $3m = $9,5m profits. so projected PE is 162,5 / 9,5 = 17x PE for a penny stock looks ok in my opinion cause most penny stocks are lost making or breakeven. So price will go up if the PE expand to say 20x or 25x or if the profits grow and still maintaing the 17x PE. Most US stocks trade based on these calculations, but in Singapore we are all gamblers so maybe we don' t look at this, but comforting to know there is some fundamental support. Less risk of bankruptcy or delisting.    Again, sorry my opinions are all numbers and fundamentals, i dunno much about the speculation part to share.  harlow      ( Date: 14-Aug-2017 22:38) Posted: current share float is 12 billion shares. assuming all new rights are subscribed, it will be 112 billion shares thereabout, excluding the shares that could be converted from warrants.
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marketreader Member	14-Aug-2017 23:16        marketreader About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Actually number of shares not relevant, it' s the market cap and absolute numbers more important. It' s like a pizza and how we sllice it. More slices, lower the price, but the weight or size of the entire pizza is the same. If the pizza is 1000 grams, if cut 10 shares then it' s 100 grams a piece, if cut 1000 slices it is 1 gram a piece. But total still 1000 grams. same with shares. So for price to move up it demands on buying power of demand. If 1bn sellers at 0.5c = $5m worth of sellers. If Noble 100m sellers at 40c =$40m worth of buyers need to buy up. So is 1bn harder to buy up or 100m? Cant' really say cause it depends on the share price. Even 1m shares of DBS is $20 so $20m worth is harder to buy up 1m DBS than 1bn MDR, of course DBS is a bluechip but that' s just example of number of shares less important than $$ value of the buy up. Some can argue lower value shares easier to buy up cause it looks cheaper to less sophisticated investors and also more affordable. Thats why usually after share consolidation the price drops, eventhough the pizza is the same size before or after share consolidation. So maybe MDR management trying to make their shares more affordable with more shares, like a reverse consolidation, maybe a positive even thought pizza size the same.   So MDR is like a market cap of $62.5m now. Profits $3m with $30m idle in cash. After rights if fully subscribed it is S$62.5m + $100m (assuming market cap for the cash is $1 for $1), then it would be $162.5m market cap with profits $3m and $130m in idle cash. So question is how much profit will the idle cash generate. I am using a standard realistic ROE of 5% so say $130m x 5% = extra profits of $6.5m + existing $3m = $9,5m profits. so projected PE is 162,5 / 9,5 = 17x PE for a penny stock looks ok in my opinion cause most penny stocks are lost making or breakeven. So price will go up if the PE expand to say 20x or 25x or if the profits grow and still maintaing the 17x PE. Most US stocks trade based on these calculations, but in Singapore we are all gamblers so maybe we don' t look at this, but comforting to know there is some fundamental support. Less risk of bankruptcy or delisting.    Again, sorry my opinions are all numbers and fundamentals, i dunno much about the speculation part to share.  harlow      ( Date: 14-Aug-2017 22:38) Posted: current share float is 12 billion shares. assuming all new rights are subscribed, it will be 112 billion shares thereabout, excluding the shares that could be converted from warrants.  fruitty      ( Date: 14-Aug-2017 12:08) Posted: Is current share over 1 billion shares? with rights exercised becomes 9 billion shares? Exluding warrants. after rights exercise, won' t current share price by diluted to 0.1c? Won' t our fund be better deployed than to put into a company not sure what we will get in return but to gamble hoping that after shares dilution our 0.1c will become 0.2c with 9 billion float?
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