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Observers Elite	23-Feb-2019 15:27        Observers About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	If Tuaspring every few weeks one small break down, every few months one big break down, then I' d agree with you that Tuaspring is in need of an urgent Government intervention whose power I believe has already been vested in PUB as offtaker via black and white contract with Hyflux. We are not in such a situation at the moment, else I think even Salim would think twice putting up his $400mil for a debt-free Hyflux since Tuaspring is his primary consideration. Qanghoo      ( Date: 23-Feb-2019 15:15) Posted: According to Hflux, 2017 wholesale elec px was abt 80/mwh.  I don' t think the water supplied to PUB is tied to the fluctuation of wholesale elect px, is it?.  Anyway, the petition was appealing to the gov to buy over TS, not to mount a full rescue of hflux.  This proposal is not unprecedented.  Govt cld consider a buy n lease-back model, much akin to the one adopted for the public transport coys.  Observers      ( Date: 23-Feb-2019 14:23) Posted: I think the govt already put olive branch out at the earliest opportunity via Temasek subsidiary Sembcorp' s at-arms-length, commercially considered bid for Tuaspring. Lucky for me (as a Sembcorp shareholder) Hyflux (Olivia) never bite. My personal views without prejudice. Hyflux supposedly bidded for this project when wholesale electricity was at $200/mwh in 2011. Water price set at $0.45 per cubic meter for first year (highest bidder I believe came in at $1+). Assuming this water price is adjusted according to cost of production and inflation using $200/mwh and $0.45 per cubic meter as datum, with main cost component electricity prices plunging to $40+(?)/mwh when Tuaspring was fully commissioned in 2016, wouldn' t the price of water sold to the offtaker PUB be incredulously, untenably low? And with the 10 year gas contract till 2026 with Shell tied to Tuaspring, and global gas prices at lelong prices, what is the break even, and a 10% ROI, electricity price to run Tuaspring? The rest of Hyflux that involved overseas projects, please do not use Singapore taxpayers monies to rescue, instead Hyflux should appeal to those foreign govts for a bailout since the beneficiary are their own citizens. That said, I think closure is still very important, especially to Hyflux retail shareholders and security holders who put in the bulk of their retirement monies. Since Hyflux spurned the offer from Sembcorp, the next best thing the govt can do is to give clarity of the actual detailed circumstances leading to Hyflux collapse. But for that to happen, Hyflux has to collapse first. Don' t think it would be right for the govt to force a collapse when Salim is willing to pick up all of the slack.
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Qanghoo Supreme	23-Feb-2019 15:15        Qanghoo About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	According to Hflux, 2017 wholesale elec px was abt 80/mwh.  I don' t think the water supplied to PUB is tied to the fluctuation of wholesale elect px, is it?.  Anyway, the petition was appealing to the gov to buy over TS, not to mount a full rescue of hflux.  This proposal is not unprecedented.  Govt cld consider a buy n lease-back model, much akin to the one adopted for the public transport coys.  Observers      ( Date: 23-Feb-2019 14:23) Posted: I think the govt already put olive branch out at the earliest opportunity via Temasek subsidiary Sembcorp' s at-arms-length, commercially considered bid for Tuaspring. Lucky for me (as a Sembcorp shareholder) Hyflux (Olivia) never bite. My personal views without prejudice. Hyflux supposedly bidded for this project when wholesale electricity was at $200/mwh in 2011. Water price set at $0.45 per cubic meter for first year (highest bidder I believe came in at $1+). Assuming this water price is adjusted according to cost of production and inflation using $200/mwh and $0.45 per cubic meter as datum, with main cost component electricity prices plunging to $40+(?)/mwh when Tuaspring was fully commissioned in 2016, wouldn' t the price of water sold to the offtaker PUB be incredulously, untenably low? And with the 10 year gas contract till 2026 with Shell tied to Tuaspring, and global gas prices at lelong prices, what is the break even, and a 10% ROI, electricity price to run Tuaspring? The rest of Hyflux that involved overseas projects, please do not use Singapore taxpayers monies to rescue, instead Hyflux should appeal to those foreign govts for a bailout since the beneficiary are their own citizens. That said, I think closure is still very important, especially to Hyflux retail shareholders and security holders who put in the bulk of their retirement monies. Since Hyflux spurned the offer from Sembcorp, the next best thing the govt can do is to give clarity of the actual detailed circumstances leading to Hyflux collapse. But for that to happen, Hyflux has to collapse first. Don' t think it would be right for the govt to force a collapse when Salim is willing to pick up all of the slack.
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KAMAL0883 Supreme	23-Feb-2019 15:02        KAMAL0883 About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Flexible   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	haha PUB control here and there but never lend their hands to rescue or may be help to solve problem  kerier      ( Date: 23-Feb-2019 14:34) Posted: dont worry about that, the asset is in singapore. any hanky panky, PUB can just declare force majeure and regain control.  KAMAL0883      ( Date: 23-Feb-2019 14:13) Posted: don' t be so short sighted, hyflux is National water strategy not ordinary commercial company. don' t you see our neighbor always use water cut  threaten us ? to rescue National strategy company is to rescue the country and the peoples as well as rescue country reputation. p.s. Mahatier is waiting and hoping to see we fail and fall........    government spend money can still earn back and if country control by outsiders then everyone will suffer
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kerier Veteran	23-Feb-2019 14:34        kerier About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	dont worry about that, the asset is in singapore. any hanky panky, PUB can just declare force majeure and regain control.  KAMAL0883      ( Date: 23-Feb-2019 14:13) Posted: don' t be so short sighted, hyflux is National water strategy not ordinary commercial company. don' t you see our neighbor always use water cut  threaten us ? to rescue National strategy company is to rescue the country and the peoples as well as rescue country reputation. p.s. Mahatier is waiting and hoping to see we fail and fall........    government spend money can still earn back and if country control by outsiders then everyone will suffer      investshare      ( Date: 23-Feb-2019 10:42) Posted: If everyone lose money go to government, next time not only cpf, but your monthly salary also should pass to government to manage.
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Observers Elite	23-Feb-2019 14:23        Observers About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	I think the govt already put olive branch out at the earliest opportunity via Temasek subsidiary Sembcorp' s at-arms-length, commercially considered bid for Tuaspring. Lucky for me (as a Sembcorp shareholder) Hyflux (Olivia) never bite. My personal views without prejudice. Hyflux supposedly bidded for this project when wholesale electricity was at $200/mwh in 2011. Water price set at $0.45 per cubic meter for first year (highest bidder I believe came in at $1+). Assuming this water price is adjusted according to cost of production and inflation using $200/mwh and $0.45 per cubic meter as datum, with main cost component electricity prices plunging to $40+(?)/mwh when Tuaspring was fully commissioned in 2016, wouldn' t the price of water sold to the offtaker PUB be incredulously, untenably low? And with the 10 year gas contract till 2026 with Shell tied to Tuaspring, and global gas prices at lelong prices, what is the break even, and a 10% ROI, electricity price to run Tuaspring? The rest of Hyflux that involved overseas projects, please do not use Singapore taxpayers monies to rescue, instead Hyflux should appeal to those foreign govts for a bailout since the beneficiary are their own citizens. That said, I think closure is still very important, especially to Hyflux retail shareholders and security holders who put in the bulk of their retirement monies. Since Hyflux spurned the offer from Sembcorp, the next best thing the govt can do is to give clarity of the actual detailed circumstances leading to Hyflux collapse. But for that to happen, Hyflux has to collapse first. Don' t think it would be right for the govt to force a collapse when Salim is willing to pick up all of the slack.
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KAMAL0883 Supreme	23-Feb-2019 14:13        KAMAL0883 About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Flexible   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	don' t be so short sighted, hyflux is National water strategy not ordinary commercial company. don' t you see our neighbor always use water cut  threaten us ? to rescue National strategy company is to rescue the country and the peoples as well as rescue country reputation. p.s. Mahatier is waiting and hoping to see we fail and fall........    government spend money can still earn back and if country control by outsiders then everyone will suffer      investshare      ( Date: 23-Feb-2019 10:42) Posted: If everyone lose money go to government, next time not only cpf, but your monthly salary also should pass to government to manage. ysh2006      ( Date: 23-Feb-2019 10:40) Posted: Many people also lost money on Ezion,Swiber,Ezra, Midas, S-Chips, Tiger Air, Noble , Olam, too!
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investshare Supreme	23-Feb-2019 10:42        investshare About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	If everyone lose money go to government, next time not only cpf, but your monthly salary also should pass to government to manage. ysh2006      ( Date: 23-Feb-2019 10:40) Posted: Many people also lost money on Ezion,Swiber,Ezra, Midas, S-Chips, Tiger Air, Noble , Olam, too!! investshare      ( Date: 23-Feb-2019 10:22) Posted: And the shareholders bought Hyflux shares with their eyes closssed as well. The cash flow problem already apparent for years, plenty opportunities to get out. In fact many forummers already flagged red alert for years
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laksaman57 Supreme	23-Feb-2019 10:42        laksaman57 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Money reserved for Merdeka generation pkg liao
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ysh2006 Supreme	23-Feb-2019 10:40        ysh2006 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Many people also lost money on Ezion,Swiber,Ezra, Midas, S-Chips, Tiger Air, Noble , Olam, too!! investshare      ( Date: 23-Feb-2019 10:22) Posted: And the shareholders bought Hyflux shares with their eyes closssed as well. The cash flow problem already apparent for years, plenty opportunities to get out. In fact many forummers already flagged red alert for years. kerier      ( Date: 23-Feb-2019 09:20) Posted: how can you expect govt to rescue all ailing companies? is it fair to the rest of the taxpayers? hyflux bidded for the project with its eyes closed.
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investshare Supreme	23-Feb-2019 10:22        investshare About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	And the shareholders bought Hyflux shares with their eyes closssed as well. The cash flow problem already apparent for years, plenty opportunities to get out. In fact many forummers already flagged red alert for years. kerier      ( Date: 23-Feb-2019 09:20) Posted: how can you expect govt to rescue all ailing companies? is it fair to the rest of the taxpayers? hyflux bidded for the project with its eyes closed.
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kerier Veteran	23-Feb-2019 09:20        kerier About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	how can you expect govt to rescue all ailing companies? is it fair to the rest of the taxpayers? hyflux bidded for the project with its eyes closed.
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Qanghoo Supreme	23-Feb-2019 09:03        Qanghoo About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	I had mede some of the same pts in my posts here.  Govt crazy?  Then it has been many times, since the Singapore Traction Company Lte' s collapse in Dec 1972. cmengchan      ( Date: 23-Feb-2019 08:36) Posted: Our Plight We petition for the plight of 34,000 Hyflux stakeholders, many whom are Singapore Citizens and retirees who placed their CPF/SRS/retirement funds in Hyflux notes, perpetual securities and preference shares. It is clear now to us that Salim Medco (SMI) is no white knight and their offer is most disadvantageous to all stakeholders as they sacrifice junior creditors to maximise the value of Hyflux for themselves. SMI offers $400M for 60% of Hyflux which value Hyflux at $667M. This figure is just around 50% of the cost of building TuasSpring (TS) plant alone.Unfortunately, this massive loss in value is at the expense of our CPF/SRS investments and retirement savings! Prior to TS fiasco, Hyflux was profitable. We understand it was the excess supply in the gas fuel contract and the prolonged weak power market which can be linked to Government (Govt) Agency policy that caused the Company to bleed badly, resulting in insolvency. What is most puzzling is why the Authority pre‐ qualified only 2 bidders for TS which artificially depressed the price (resulting in only 1 bid) and yet approved foreign firm taking control of the entire Hyflux with TS as part of the deal at bargain price? This situation also allows SMI to place tough conditions on Hyflux as part of their investment conditions. Hyflux?s woes stemmed solely because they took on TS a Govt Public‐ Private‐ Partnership(PPP) Project. Hyflux stakeholders now are facing this disastrous choice ? Vote for the scheme and lose up to 90% of our investment or liquidate possibly get 0%. Faced with this dilemma, we have no choice but appeal to our Govt for help. 1. Tuaspring is a strategic national asset (One of ?Four National Taps?) Hyflux, for many years, was the pride of our nation (endorsed by our late Mr Lee Kuan Yew). Water is a critical asset to Singapore and NEWater together Desalinated Water formed two of Singapore much vaulted ?Four National Taps?. A video on TS is also proudly shown on PUB?s webpage. Therefore, TS cannot be seen as a commercial asset but strategic to Singapore much like Public Transport (MRT and Buses) and Infrastructure (reservoirs and water pipes). We cannot allow such asset to fall into foreign hands and face issues similar to that with Malaysia over water supply. 2. If the government can intervene with MRT and buses, why not Tuasspring? Govt has already set precedence by acquiring formerly public listed SMRT because of public woes due to frequent train breakdowns. The Govt also spent $1.1 billion buying new buses for commercial bus companies to ease national transport problems. Similarly, TS which provides the nation with water is a matter of national interest and the government should step in to intervene to acquire it. 3. Our only hope of recovering our investment is Govt to acquire TS as Strategic National Asset. The plant was initiated by PUB and built according to specs to serve National Needs. It is a bespoke National Strategic Asset. The Govt can justify taking over TS to protect national interest and to take ownership on a failed PPP. TS was built for $1.3 billion. Should the Govt acquire TS at Fair Asset Value, there will be enough money to pay off Malayan Banking?s lien on TS and some left to pay outstanding creditors. What?s more, Hyflux will remain viable as a going concern. This is not a BAILOUT but rightful Govt action. OUR PLEA ? All 34,000 stakeholders of about 150,000 family members, many Singapore Citizens and retirees whose livelihood will be severely affected if the Government do not step in to save our hard‐ earned investment and precious retirement fund from being decimated by SMI. We appeal to our Government to ACT Now to acquire TS plant as a National Strategic Asset at Building Costs (less depreciation) which should be worth more than S$1 billion. Please Acquire TS before the Restructuring Process starts or it will be too late for us after that to salvage our retirement funds ysh2006      ( Date: 23-Feb-2019 08:23) Posted: Can forumer help to post the web contents here for us to read.... tk
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Nainai Member	23-Feb-2019 08:58        Nainai About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Government would be crazy to use tax payer fund to rescue Hyflux. If governments was to really step in then it should be to buy up TS cheaply so as to make profit。
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cmengchan Senior	23-Feb-2019 08:36        cmengchan About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Flexible   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Our Plight We petition for the plight of 34,000 Hyflux stakeholders, many whom are Singapore Citizens and retirees who placed their CPF/SRS/retirement funds in Hyflux notes, perpetual securities and preference shares. It is clear now to us that Salim Medco (SMI) is no white knight and their offer is most disadvantageous to all stakeholders as they sacrifice junior creditors to maximise the value of Hyflux for themselves. SMI offers $400M for 60% of Hyflux which value Hyflux at $667M. This figure is just around 50% of the cost of building TuasSpring (TS) plant alone.Unfortunately, this massive loss in value is at the expense of our CPF/SRS investments and retirement savings! Prior to TS fiasco, Hyflux was profitable. We understand it was the excess supply in the gas fuel contract and the prolonged weak power market which can be linked to Government (Govt) Agency policy that caused the Company to bleed badly, resulting in insolvency. What is most puzzling is why the Authority pre‐ qualified only 2 bidders for TS which artificially depressed the price (resulting in only 1 bid) and yet approved foreign firm taking control of the entire Hyflux with TS as part of the deal at bargain price? This situation also allows SMI to place tough conditions on Hyflux as part of their investment conditions. Hyflux?s woes stemmed solely because they took on TS a Govt Public‐ Private‐ Partnership(PPP) Project. Hyflux stakeholders now are facing this disastrous choice ? Vote for the scheme and lose up to 90% of our investment or liquidate possibly get 0%. Faced with this dilemma, we have no choice but appeal to our Govt for help. 1. Tuaspring is a strategic national asset (One of ?Four National Taps?) Hyflux, for many years, was the pride of our nation (endorsed by our late Mr Lee Kuan Yew). Water is a critical asset to Singapore and NEWater together Desalinated Water formed two of Singapore much vaulted ?Four National Taps?. A video on TS is also proudly shown on PUB?s webpage. Therefore, TS cannot be seen as a commercial asset but strategic to Singapore much like Public Transport (MRT and Buses) and Infrastructure (reservoirs and water pipes). We cannot allow such asset to fall into foreign hands and face issues similar to that with Malaysia over water supply. 2. If the government can intervene with MRT and buses, why not Tuasspring? Govt has already set precedence by acquiring formerly public listed SMRT because of public woes due to frequent train breakdowns. The Govt also spent $1.1 billion buying new buses for commercial bus companies to ease national transport problems. Similarly, TS which provides the nation with water is a matter of national interest and the government should step in to intervene to acquire it. 3. Our only hope of recovering our investment is Govt to acquire TS as Strategic National Asset. The plant was initiated by PUB and built according to specs to serve National Needs. It is a bespoke National Strategic Asset. The Govt can justify taking over TS to protect national interest and to take ownership on a failed PPP. TS was built for $1.3 billion. Should the Govt acquire TS at Fair Asset Value, there will be enough money to pay off Malayan Banking?s lien on TS and some left to pay outstanding creditors. What?s more, Hyflux will remain viable as a going concern. This is not a BAILOUT but rightful Govt action. OUR PLEA ? All 34,000 stakeholders of about 150,000 family members, many Singapore Citizens and retirees whose livelihood will be severely affected if the Government do not step in to save our hard‐ earned investment and precious retirement fund from being decimated by SMI. We appeal to our Government to ACT Now to acquire TS plant as a National Strategic Asset at Building Costs (less depreciation) which should be worth more than S$1 billion. Please Acquire TS before the Restructuring Process starts or it will be too late for us after that to salvage our retirement funds ysh2006      ( Date: 23-Feb-2019 08:23) Posted: Can forumer help to post the web contents here for us to read.... tks greenhappy      ( Date: 23-Feb-2019 07:21) Posted: https://www.change.org/p/singapore-government-appeal-to-government-to-take-back-tuaspring-to-save-citizens-retirement-fund
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ysh2006 Supreme	23-Feb-2019 08:23        ysh2006 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Can forumer help to post the web contents here for us to read.... tks greenhappy      ( Date: 23-Feb-2019 07:21) Posted: https://www.change.org/p/singapore-government-appeal-to-government-to-take-back-tuaspring-to-save-citizens-retirement-fund
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Sgvale Supreme	23-Feb-2019 07:56        Sgvale About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Next time Govt has to back up. all investors losses
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Qanghoo Supreme	23-Feb-2019 07:49        Qanghoo About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Good move.  I take the stand that govt has a part to play here.  Afterall, TS is supposed to be an asset that is part of the nation' s water security infrastructural n ought to be of utmost national interest.  If there' s an arguement for public transport coys' viability, equally, if not even more imperative, is the need to ensure the sustainability of water infrastructural coys. greenhappy      ( Date: 23-Feb-2019 07:21) Posted: https://www.change.org/p/singapore-government-appeal-to-government-to-take-back-tuaspring-to-save-citizens-retirement-fund
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ysh2006 Supreme	23-Feb-2019 07:35        ysh2006 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Can post the letter contents here the link not work. Tks
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greenhappy Member	23-Feb-2019 07:21        greenhappy About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	https://www.change.org/p/singapore-government-appeal-to-government-to-take-back-tuaspring-to-save-citizens-retirement-fund
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