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YZJ Fin Hldg
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YZJFH - potentially rewarding
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BinderyT
Elite |
05-Mar-2024 16:53
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Yeap. But treasury shares can be sold and converted back to cash. Cash can then be used for FH' s core business of financing. Cash is FH' s lifeblood, it has no other resources. If it keeps burning up 10% of its resources, how will it grow?
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pkli899
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05-Mar-2024 16:37
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Today we have very good exchanges here. Thanks all who contributed.......learned a lot. |
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volvo125
Master |
05-Mar-2024 16:33
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Correct me if I' m wrong. The ~ 410m treasury shares were acquired at an average price of ~$0.365 per share including costs. The nav per share is ~$1.06. Treasury share is a contra equity and share cancellation will have impact on equity or retained earning accordingly. However, these shares were acquired at a very steep discount at average 0.365, and not 1.06. Hence, mathematically, the reduction in equity will be very much less at only ~30% of the expected value than if these shares were to be acquired at 1.06. This much less than expected reduction in the equity face value due to share cancellation on shares acquired at less than the prevailing nav is actually a " gain" although it is only a balance record with no P& L effect. Overall, this will translate into a much higher shareholder value per share. Right ? As for share price performance, i would think it is important for YFH as it is an Asset Mgt coy. If YFH share price continues to remain at distressed level protractedly, how would YFH going to convince its clients, fund mgt partners ... etc to invest or co-invest together ?
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sgng123
Supreme |
05-Mar-2024 16:09
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Do a capital reducrion 100% gurantee u see panic short covering to fair value minimum.
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sgng123
Supreme |
05-Mar-2024 16:07
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Ren stake 23.7%, if he buy it would be GO. SGX take over threhold revised from 30% to 25%.
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pasttime
Supreme |
05-Mar-2024 16:06
Yells: "gold silver are real money. not others iou." |
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cancelling of book entry etc is no meaning to shareholders. those are double entry that knock out each other even if they stay on the book. looks good only no real value. i did not said ren is interested to bump up the share price. sure think he is longer term growing the business value. i am just talking about how the shorts are harvesting cash from our markets and ways to fight them. doing a price protection is just sending more money into their hands. need a plan to fight them. my suspect is these are the western base fund manager who also has listed fund where they can get cheap share loan. all my imagination only, don' t believe what i said.
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sgng123
Supreme |
05-Mar-2024 16:05
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Your perception of treasury stock reducing retained earning wrong, cancel it don affecy anything but extend SBB program and send strong signal to shortist yzjfh gona squeeze their borrowing size by buying more aggressive and cancelling it. YZJ FH spinoff approved by investors in yzjsh AGM in 2021 not Ren approval. the intention is to unlock value in both yzjfh and yzjsh. Look like yzjsh succeed but yzjfh still wip. Capital redistribution would also force short squeeze as borrowed stock need to be returned to owner and few seller wanna sell. |
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MambaFinancial89
Veteran |
05-Mar-2024 15:58
Yells: "Be greedy when others are fearful. " |
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The Edge, 10 Nov 20222 Headline: Yangzijiang Financial' s Ren readies share purchases upon buybacks hitting mandate cap When are you going to start buying, Ren? The shares are officially trading below cash value, we have hit the cap and financial results are out (blackout period is over). Please instill some confidence before all is lost... |
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BinderyT
Elite |
05-Mar-2024 15:51
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First, cancelling treasury means reduction of either equity or retained earnings. Second, what makes you think Ren is keen on burning money to prop up share price? Whether share price is 30 cents or $1 has zero impact on FH' s operations.
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pasttime
Supreme |
05-Mar-2024 15:47
Yells: "gold silver are real money. not others iou." |
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cancel treasury does not affect share holders value as the money already spend at point of by buy back. on nta point of view yzjfh make the money by increasing nta. from fighting shortist point of view yzjfh has lost. the 410249900 treasury shares cost $149601404.79 at average of $0.3647 per shares. current value @ $0.325 is worth $133331217.5 ie bb has lost $16m+ in share price. ie shorts has gain strength on paper. some of these already realised. some still stuck in the 20m+ shorts not covered. from a battle ground view point. it is not worth to protect a price position. it is good to gain value out of shots so that they brecome weaker. lt them short it down. collect cheap then close the bag and squeeze them pain pain. |
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SAVIORFOREVER
Supreme |
05-Mar-2024 15:43
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He need to find somebody to buy the shares at higher price or a share swap with another company in form of investment.
Trade with expectation and DYODD
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volvo125
Master |
05-Mar-2024 15:38
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IR response to my 2nd mail : Noted on your comment and I have also forwarded your email to management. YZJF has done what it believes is most appropriate in terms of making NPL provision. The Chairman has mentioned in the earnings briefing that he would like to be as aggressive as possible when it comes to making such provisions, but it is often also subject to the auditors' approval. China' s real estate market remains relatively unstable despite possible government intervention and while management believes that they have had sufficient collaterals in place to avoid drastic writedowns and impairment of real-estate linked loans, the collectability is uncertain especially for illiquid collaterals and this has prompted management to be more conservative in its provision stance.
Nonetheless, well noted on your concern and I would again revert back to management on this matter.
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BinderyT
Elite |
05-Mar-2024 15:36
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If Ren has any intention of returning capital to shareholders, FH would not even be created. Dividend payout ratio would also be raised to 50%, inline with industry norm. I also do not expect treasury shares to be cancelled nor a GO to be made. | ||||
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pasttime
Supreme |
05-Mar-2024 15:31
Yells: "gold silver are real money. not others iou." |
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current sell down is in line with the market. in my opinion the main reason for sell down is to harvest cash to support the 30 year bond auction on 13 mar. after that cash will be released and it will come back to market. this has been the case for many rounds of longer term bond auctions. my guess only the relationship does hold. | ||||
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sgng123
Supreme |
05-Mar-2024 15:26
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Can do capital reduction exercise, returning extra cash back to investor no capital gain tax. Lot of cash rich companies do capital reduction when no option to utilise free cash. China based companies having hard time international doing business esp in finance sector. American protectism keep out china hand from global finance business. i was thinking capital redistribution 0.20 , reducing free cash back to 2022 level. Cheap way if ren not interested in Go, everyone win and stock price stay 0.3+ |
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sgng123
Supreme |
05-Mar-2024 15:11
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Current fair value at cash value 0.448 as reflected in full year result. A GO at 0.50+ would gather lot of retail interest. Ren got the credit from banks as his stake in yzjsh worth 1.5b Just not comfortable with cash stacking in sg without investing it.
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volvo125
Master |
05-Mar-2024 15:11
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For the benefits of all the brothers here in the forum, here are the 2 mails I wrote to the IR : 1st mail : Thank you very much for your reply.
The 2H23 npat of just ~5$40m was a shell shock to many investors in contrast to the 1H23 npat $162m. This significant decline in the bottomline in 2H is a very worrying sign for YFH prospect in FY24, amidst the further scale down of topline DI interest income to 30% AUM and the still very infant state of other income sources, such as maritime fund and private credits. These new developing income sources are also much smaller in scale as compared to DI too.
The share price resumed its drop post FY23 release to now 0.325, in the absence of SBB, is a very blunt negative reaction from the market on YFH prospect.
YFH management will need to consider providing more information, probably similar to the FAQ provided during 1H23, to calm the investors on the many doubts and question marks behind the sudden and severe drop in the 2H23 npat, as well as shed more lights on how YFH intended to positively navigate FY24 prospect.
Hopefully YFH management could clarify the 10% limit, since the SBB ratio already exceeded 10%, and consider making a formal sgx announcement to formally advise the investors on YFH intended course of option(s) to take so as to ensure the continuance of SBB.
SBB is probably, and hopefully, the only way now to address the further erosion of share prices or shareholder value.
Deeply appreciate if you could forward the above message to YFH board and management.
Thanks and Regards.
2nd Mail : Thank you very much for your prompt reply. Deeply appreciated.
I have a further point to add regarding NPL.
There was a sudden back to back increase in NPL provision of $47.4mil during 4Q23 (33.8m+8.5m+5.1m), effectively reversing out the earlier write back of $8.5m in 1H23 and $5.1m in 3Q23 (total $13.6m write back) to give a net full year NPL provision of $33.8m.
While the net NPL carrying amount has decreased encouragingly from FY22 $996m to FY23 $653m, the sudden bumped up of $47.4m in 4Q23 seems to suggest that the current $259mil provision pool might still not be sufficient and that more such nasty huge NPL provision could still continue to pop up and dampen future npat. This is a grave concern for the many investors.
Appreciate that you could forward this message to YFH management.
Apologize for typo errors as I was typing this mail on the fly with my hp.
Let' s see the response from YFH in the SGX announcement. |
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sgng123
Supreme |
05-Mar-2024 15:06
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Still rememder recent china national 2-3b money laundering in sg, they remit huge sum of money to buy asset instead of original purpose of starting business. Hope yzjfh don try to act smart and do dumb thing, better utilised remitted money ASAP sg very good at catching money laundering business. putting 1.3b in cash management for too long not good. |
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SAVIORFOREVER
Supreme |
05-Mar-2024 15:06
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Will Ren buy at the attractive price?
Trade with elusive price and DYODD |
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sgng123
Supreme |
05-Mar-2024 14:53
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They had not found replacement for legal adviser who left in dec. Guess don know how SGX rule work and accidently breached 10% limit. Now shortlist banking on it and start another sell down. Volvo 125 had to write in to inform them lol. China companies like that always think don get caught then everything possible. |
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