| Latest Forum Topics / Best World |
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THE BEST IS YET TO BE
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Wind22i
Supreme |
25-Apr-2019 11:32
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Just have to assess whether it is a Ponzi | ||||
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Leehonghng
Member |
25-Apr-2019 11:31
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For M/s Runaway: Look at the link below:- https://www.bonitasresearch.com/company/best_world/ | ||||
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JarBinx
Member |
25-Apr-2019 11:27
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I know, I' m just saying.. Valiant Varrior also allege that " all 33 franchisees listed on the Best World website are essentially owned and operated by their sales people who have attained the highest tier/level of PD." Actually I recall from last time I visited a Singapore MLM.. if you' re a line manager for an MLM, you' re not an " employee" but a " business partner" . So I wonder if BWL treats their PDs as business partners.  
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Operator81
Senior |
25-Apr-2019 11:23
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Why are you all analysing the business now? You want to know the business, go work in the company. The price from $3 to $1.6x already tell us something. Just remember that the price never lie. | ||||
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curious_moo
Master |
25-Apr-2019 11:21
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China is not so extreme la, they are big so its hard to control. many laws are still under constant improvements and loop holes are still around. cannot compare to singapore, we are small and easier to govern.
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beng1102
Elite |
25-Apr-2019 11:19
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Unlike Singapore, China' s law is extreme.  Economic crime can be a death sentence.  Authorities have been cracking down all sort of vice for so long already and still not done with BW?
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curious_moo
Master |
25-Apr-2019 11:18
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nobody mentioned about fake companies, not sure where u got that info from. the bonitas report speculate that changsha best is just a controlled entity (distributor) setup by BWL themselves to buy their own products, and that changsha inflated earnings (which means indirectly BWL inflated earnings). the evidence provided that supported their speculation is due to the transfer of all funds from changsha best back to BWL when it closes. i think u should read the report before making more comments and take our posts a merely " comments about the report" . if you are too bias in your views, its hard to move on lol..
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curious_moo
Master |
25-Apr-2019 11:14
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finding genuine franchisee who is interested in the product and thinking that they can regain sales confidence without using the direct marketing strategy (like MLM) is not so easy lol.. the impact definitly will be there on their balance sheet..  
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Tiger04
Senior |
25-Apr-2019 11:13
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Reply kenna blocked ! Why ? | ||||
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JarBinx
Member |
25-Apr-2019 10:57
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So if BWL franchisee kena busted, BWL isn' t liable? i.e. future profits lost but no penalties/fines, and BWL can always find another franchisee if it wants?
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zillion
Master |
25-Apr-2019 10:53
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it is the level of recruiting sales people that is in question not the products itself. in any mlm and the like the money generating part comes from the various levels of sales people while the products itself are fixed money. BW claimed they are in no position to control how their clients execute the recruitment system. BW just sell to them and wash their hands. Who in the right mind will want to just buy over the products and left dangling in the air with no proper training and guidance. BW itself admits that they are part of the whole system of ' downlines' . Without such attractive incentives of ' downlines' can Drs secret sell so well? Stores with products displaying will not generate such exponential outrageous $$$. Stores with products displaying need not have so many training centres.
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beng1102
Elite |
25-Apr-2019 10:53
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U mean someone would setup a fake company to buy from BW and paid so much money.  The money then pay to shareholders, pay to Tax authority, pay to buy back share, pay to directors?   
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curious_moo
Master |
25-Apr-2019 10:53
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i think you are missing the geist of my point. i mentioned that this business model (as highlighted by the reports) is not sustainable. nobody mentioned that the products are not sellable. It was also mentioned in the reports that they expect the margin should be in line with other mid-high tier brands, which is usually high single digit, but BWL' s growth margin is too high to be realistic (at least to the analyst who wrote those shorting reports). digest and understand before investing. its just a due deligence. and if one is ok with the risk-reward involved, then one will buy. no influence here, just a thought process.  
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beng1102
Elite |
25-Apr-2019 10:46
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U mean franchisee buy in don' t need to pay money?  If they paid for the inventory and they don' t selling then how to make money?  Franchises are so nice to pay money upfront but don' t sell the inventory?  Better all go to China to setup the same type buinesses.
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runaway
Senior |
25-Apr-2019 10:43
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可 否 分 享 这 重 要 信 息 是 那 里 获 得 的 ? 可 以 确 认 是 可 靠 的 报 道 吗 ?  
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Leehonghng
Member |
25-Apr-2019 10:39
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Quote and Unquote : 我 们 认 为 全 美 世 界 是 一 个 骗 局 , 其 中 国 业 务 的 销 售 额 被 虚 增 。 2019 年 3 月 19 日 全 美 世 界 国 际 有 限 公 司 ( BB:BEST __ SGX: CGN) ( ?全 美 世 界 ?或 ?公 司 ?) 向 股 东 披 露 , 聘 请 PwC 对 其 中 国 业 务 进 行 独 立 审 查 , 范 围 仅 限 于 2018 年 。 我 们 认 为 , 全 美 世 界 的 管 理 层 有 意 让 PwC 的 审 查 限 制 在 2018 年 , 以 转 移 注 意 力 , 并 最 终 进 一 步 隐 瞒 先 前 报 告 的 中 国 业 务 的 虚 假 销 售 和 利 润 。 中 国 的 备 案 资 料 显 示 , 全 美 世 界 在 2017 年 向 最 大 客 户 ( ?长 沙 百 世 特 威 ?) 做 出 的 销 售 中 , 至 少 虚 增 了 3,100万 新 元 销 售 额 。 而 且 , 证 据 显 示 长 沙 百 世 特 威 是 被 全 美 世 界 表 外 控 制 的 专 门 用 于 在 中 国 采 购 全 美 世 界 产 品 的 傀 儡 。 如 果 刨 除 这 些 虚 增 的 销 售 , 我 们 计 算 出 全 美 世 界 2017 年 的 净 利 润 至 少 虚 增 130%。 自 2019 年 1 月 起 , 我 们 与 24 位 全 美 世 界 中 国 销 售 代 理 ( ?销 售 代 理 ?, 或 称 ?事 业 伙 伴 ?) 进 行 了 沟 通 , 并 于 2019 年 3 月 实 地 走 访 了 12 个 全 美 世 界 生 活 馆 ( 占 全 美 世 界 列 出 的 特 许 经 营 店 总 数 的 36% ) , 以 更 好 地 理 解 全 美 世 界 的 销 售 模 式 。 我 们 的 研 究 结 果 表 明 , 皙 之 密 护 肤 品 在 中 国 的 终 端 用 户 消 费 需 求 非 常 少 。 此 外 , 证 据 显 示 , 从 2019 年 2 月 18 日 ?新 加 坡 商 业 时 报 ?发 布 全 美 世 界 的 负 面 文 章 以 来 , 皙 之 密 的 线 上 卖 家 开 始 虚 增 产 品 的 交 易 量 和 评 论 数 , 以 展 示 虚 假 的 线 上 活 跃 度 。 我 们 发 现 , 我 们 走 访 的 12 个 生 活 馆 中 的 8 个 并 不 向 非 会 员 单 独 出 售 产 品 。 我 们 的 调 查 员 发 现 , 全 美 世 界 生 活 馆 的 员 工 似 乎 不 习 惯 服 务 未 经 销 售 代 理 介 绍 而 自 主 入 店 的 客 户 。 诧 异 的 是 , 我 们 被 一 家 自 2017 年 10 月 开 始 营 业 的 全 美 世 界 生 活 馆 的 现 场 员 工 告 知 , 我 们 是 他 们 第 一 个 未 经 销 售 代 理 介 绍 而 主 动 进 店 的 客 户 ! 作 为 其 欺 诈 计 划 的 回 报 , 全 美 世 界 的 创 始 人 ( ?Dora?s?) 将 她 们 合 计 取 得 的 报 酬 在 五 年 内 增 加 了 20 多 倍 , 从 2013 年 的 不 到 200 万 新 元 , 增 加 到 2018 年 的 超 过 4,000 万 新 元 ! 自 实 施 该 计 划 以 来 的 三 年 内 , Dora?s 共 拿 走 8,500 万 新 元 , 同 时 让 全 美 世 界 的 贸 易 应 付 账 款 余 额 在 2018 年 底 达 到 9,500 万 新 元 的 历 史 最 高 水 平 , 应 收 账 款 触 及 历 史 最 低 点 520 万 新 元 。 我 们 做 空 全 美 世 界 的 股 票 , 并 相 信 它 的 价 格 会 走 低 。 | ||||
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1035834
Senior |
25-Apr-2019 10:37
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for my personal view after seeing the report: - i am not surprising for the high profit margin as the BWL products are really pricy but still got ppls willing to buy  it . just like LV and hermes bag  got its market.  you can go to BWL sg centre to see how expensive it is.  - this type of pricy comestic products , ppls need to test it and see the results before willing to buy for it  .so it is normal need to make appointment before can go or will be mess , just like you need to do the test drive before buy the car.  - the accounting treatment for revenue regnition is different between sg and china, china got its own accouting standard and the sales can only be recognised once you pay the VAT to their govt, if i not remember wrongly.  - the company change the auditor from RSM to EY is good sign , if you commit fraud , you will change to a smaller audit firm and not to big four accounting firm    and new accouting policy adopted is follow SG reporting standard as different business model got is revenue recognition point.  - the membership system really depend on the contract entered between the member and company, nothing wrong if you refer someone and got the incentive just like credit card referer programme .    |
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WL123456
Supreme |
25-Apr-2019 10:36
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That?s the problem when the franchises buy in an mlm system , it?s no longer for the product. Everyone is in for the profit . That?s why this type of sales format if damned.
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michaeltan
Master |
25-Apr-2019 10:29
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But the  franchisees are not so stupid right? Have you used their product before? If the product is not good and not saleable. what' s the point to pay upfront heavyly to keep for the  keep inventory.
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curious_moo
Master |
25-Apr-2019 10:17
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yes, healthcare and cosmetic are in demand these days, but why will someone pay a premium price for similar products of the same range. the price tag are even comparable to branded cosmetics. one of the possible reason (or likely reason as per the reports) could be the agents themselves. as per the MLM model, the lower tier agents are investing in the products to move to higher tier for higher commission. they are all driven by the paramid scheme.  BWL now adopts franchise model by supplying directly to the franchisee, but god knows how these franchisee are selling their purchased inventories. BWL already mentioned they have no control over how their franchisee works as they scope of control. so if there are no genuine interest in the product but merely selling because of new agents " investing" , then this model might not be sustainable. BWL will be affected when franchisee business are affected.
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