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HYFLUX Petition Post Reply Rate topic
kerier Veteran	24-Feb-2019 10:16        kerier About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	6% not high? we only get over 1% for FDs and SSB is 2%. water is strategic resource no doubt... but is tuaspring critical to our survival? NO simplesimon      ( Date: 24-Feb-2019 10:08) Posted: It is not greed but did not know the risk as water is a strategic resource! And the media had praise olivia Lum to sky high! 6% is not extremely high like ah long' s 10%!   lukewong82      ( Date: 24-Feb-2019 07:22) Posted: At that time,fixed deposit  interest rate was super low as QE was implemented during those days. So 6% compared to fixed deposit of less than 1% is really very enticing.. So i think Greed overcame those investors... Asking tax payers to bail them out is not fair to those  investors who were prudent and did NOT succumb to greed and did not buy into hyflux.
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simplesimon Member	24-Feb-2019 10:08        simplesimon About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	It is not greed but did not know the risk as water is a strategic resource! And the media had praise olivia Lum to sky high! 6% is not extremely high like ah long' s 10%!   lukewong82      ( Date: 24-Feb-2019 07:22) Posted: At that time,fixed deposit  interest rate was super low as QE was implemented during those days. So 6% compared to fixed deposit of less than 1% is really very enticing.. So i think Greed overcame those investors... Asking tax payers to bail them out is not fair to those  investors who were prudent and did NOT succumb to greed and did not buy into hyflux.   Wind22i      ( Date: 24-Feb-2019 06:56) Posted: I think many madams who bought knew the risk involve .. but when they dangle the carrot at 6% perpetuals - one type of investor will know its too good to be true and avoid it but another type like the madam may have been motivated by greed and go all in...the 6% is the carot / bait sounds too good to be true
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kerier Veteran	24-Feb-2019 10:03        kerier About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	not just hyflux bonds. many of the o& g companies also...bonds issued by banks so they had to sell them.
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Starship Supreme	24-Feb-2019 09:47        Starship About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	It' s not only the banks. I saw even Singpost outlets have glass cubicles with " salesmen/salesgirls" inside who' ll come out and scout the queues for uncles and aunties. They' ll start by asking whether they' re Singaporeans and try to get them to sit down and sell them some investments or whatever.    Qanghoo      ( Date: 24-Feb-2019 07:19) Posted: I wldn' t want to over speculate if the customer had been taken in by the bait of high yield although I tend to be more biased towards the customer being pressurised, to some extent at least.  What I' d like to say is, in the banking relationship of my grandfather' s time, this wld probably never have happened, ie, the traditional relationship between a depositor n his bk was one of solely taking in deposit n serving as custodian of that deposit n striving to offer the best rate for it.  Qn is how far shd a bk go, or be permitted to go, to pry into depositors' accounts n exploit the (privileged?) information available to it to push products to unsuspecting customers to fatten it' s profits?  It might be timely for MAS to review bks' relationships with customers n, if deemed appropriate, return bks to their more traditional relationship with depositors.  Selling of financial instruments n products shd remain the domain of licenced financial advisors n wealth managers n shd ideally be initiated by the customer.
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des_khor Supreme	24-Feb-2019 09:44        des_khor About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Flexible   Mood: Yells: "Tell me who is God or Market Fortune Teller in this forum ??"
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Even now also Super Low . lukewong82      ( Date: 24-Feb-2019 07:22) Posted: At that time,fixed deposit  interest rate was super low as QE was implemented during those days. So 6% compared to fixed deposit of less than 1% is really very enticing.. So i think Greed overcame those investors... Asking tax payers to bail them out is not fair to those  investors who were prudent and did NOT succumb to greed and did not buy into hyflux.   Wind22i      ( Date: 24-Feb-2019 06:56) Posted: I think many madams who bought knew the risk involve .. but when they dangle the carrot at 6% perpetuals - one type of investor will know its too good to be true and avoid it but another type like the madam may have been motivated by greed and go all in...the 6% is the carot / bait sounds too good to be true
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lukewong82 Master	24-Feb-2019 07:22        lukewong82 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	At that time,fixed deposit  interest rate was super low as QE was implemented during those days. So 6% compared to fixed deposit of less than 1% is really very enticing.. So i think Greed overcame those investors... Asking tax payers to bail them out is not fair to those  investors who were prudent and did NOT succumb to greed and did not buy into hyflux.   Wind22i      ( Date: 24-Feb-2019 06:56) Posted: I think many madams who bought knew the risk involve .. but when they dangle the carrot at 6% perpetuals - one type of investor will know its too good to be true and avoid it but another type like the madam may have been motivated by greed and go all in...the 6% is the carot / bait sounds too good to be true
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Qanghoo Supreme	24-Feb-2019 07:19        Qanghoo About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	I wldn' t want to over speculate if the customer had been taken in by the bait of high yield although I tend to be more biased towards the customer being pressurised, to some extent at least.  What I' d like to say is, in the banking relationship of my grandfather' s time, this wld probably never have happened, ie, the traditional relationship between a depositor n his bk was one of solely taking in deposit n serving as custodian of that deposit n striving to offer the best rate for it.  Qn is how far shd a bk go, or be permitted to go, to pry into depositors' accounts n exploit the (privileged?) information available to it to push products to unsuspecting customers to fatten it' s profits?  It might be timely for MAS to review bks' relationships with customers n, if deemed appropriate, return bks to their more traditional relationship with depositors.  Selling of financial instruments n products shd remain the domain of licenced financial advisors n wealth managers n shd ideally be initiated by the customer.
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Wind22i Supreme	24-Feb-2019 06:56        Wind22i About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	I think many madams who bought knew the risk involve .. but when they dangle the carrot at 6% perpetuals - one type of investor will know its too good to be true and avoid it but another type like the madam may have been motivated by greed and go all in...the 6% is the carot / bait sounds too good to be true
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Qanghoo Supreme	24-Feb-2019 06:53        Qanghoo About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Hmmmmm!!!!  History seems to be repeating  .... yet again?  A great brand name in the financial industry being allegedly mired once more in apparently controversial high-pressure selling of products that the buyer seemed inadequately equipped to take the plunge in? Starship      ( Date: 23-Feb-2019 20:32) Posted: Retail investor offers counter proposal FEB 22, 2019, 5:00 AM SGT Madam Loo Leong Hun was 55 years old when she was given a list of corporate bonds in June 2012 by a DBS relationship manager to invest in as she had savings in her POSB account. " Hyflux preference shares was on the list, and it was strongly recommended as it was a strategic and national asset. The money was to facilitate expansion and build desalination plants. I thought I had invested in a good company... which was our nation' s pride," Madam Loo, now 62, told the High Court yesterday. One of some 34,000 registered holders of Hyflux perpetual securities and preference shares, Madam Loo was allowed yesterday by Justice Aedit Abdullah to voice her concerns, which he said are " shared by many of you" . But Justice Aedit added that he " may not be able to meet all of Madam Loo' s concerns (yesterday) afternoon" as court proceedings were geared towards whether a scheme meeting should be called. On the proposed plan, Madam Loo said that many individual investors, including herself, will be " ruthlessly eliminated from the balance sheet with very little money or equity returned to them" . Madam Loo proposed " a minimum or waived coupon" payment on her securities but for her initial investment or principal to be kept on Hyflux' s books, The Straits Times understands. She cited the case of another elderly investor who had invested in 2,500 preference shares. " She is 86, lives alone in a one-room flat and... has mobility problems. She used Hyflux dividends to pay off some of her daily expenses. Now, she has no more earning power," she said. Asking for her proposal to be accepted, she said it is " a glimmer of hope" to recover her savings. https://www.straitstimes.com/business/retail-investor-offers-counter-proposal
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ysh2006 Supreme	24-Feb-2019 06:10        ysh2006 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	The term must have one million dollar to throw don't know she has ? ...the PR boh tai chi if she has..... Goldfinger      ( Date: 23-Feb-2019 20:48) Posted: Er.... is Madam Loo an accredited investor? Starship      ( Date: 23-Feb-2019 20:32) Posted: Retail investor offers counter proposal FEB 22, 2019, 5:00 AM SGT Madam Loo Leong Hun was 55 years old when she was given a list of corporate bonds in June 2012 by a DBS relationship manager to invest in as she had savings in her POSB account. " Hyflux preference shares was on the list, and it was strongly recommended as it was a strategic and national asset. The money was to facilitate expansion and build desalination plants. I thought I had invested in a good company... which was our nation' s pride," Madam Loo, now 62, told the High Court yesterday. One of some 34,000 registered holders of Hyflux perpetual securities and preference shares, Madam Loo was allowed yesterday by Justice Aedit Abdullah to voice her concerns, which he said are " shared by many of you" . But Justice Aedit added that he " may not be able to meet all of Madam Loo' s concerns (yesterday) afternoon" as court proceedings were geared towards whether a scheme meeting should be called. On the proposed plan, Madam Loo said that many individual investors, including herself, will be " ruthlessly eliminated from the balance sheet with very little money or equity returned to them" . Madam Loo proposed " a minimum or waived coupon" payment on her securities but for her initial investment or principal to be kept on Hyflux' s books, The Straits Times understands. She cited the case of another elderly investor who had invested in 2,500 preference shares. " She is 86, lives alone in a one-room flat and... has mobility problems. She used Hyflux dividends to pay off some of her daily expenses. Now, she has no more earning power," she said. Asking for her proposal to be accepted, she said it is " a glimmer of hope" to recover her savings. https://www.straitstimes.com/business/retail-investor-offers-counter-proposal
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Goldfinger Supreme	23-Feb-2019 20:48        Goldfinger About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Er.... is Madam Loo an accredited investor? Starship      ( Date: 23-Feb-2019 20:32) Posted: Retail investor offers counter proposal FEB 22, 2019, 5:00 AM SGT Madam Loo Leong Hun was 55 years old when she was given a list of corporate bonds in June 2012 by a DBS relationship manager to invest in as she had savings in her POSB account. " Hyflux preference shares was on the list, and it was strongly recommended as it was a strategic and national asset. The money was to facilitate expansion and build desalination plants. I thought I had invested in a good company... which was our nation' s pride," Madam Loo, now 62, told the High Court yesterday. One of some 34,000 registered holders of Hyflux perpetual securities and preference shares, Madam Loo was allowed yesterday by Justice Aedit Abdullah to voice her concerns, which he said are " shared by many of you" . But Justice Aedit added that he " may not be able to meet all of Madam Loo' s concerns (yesterday) afternoon" as court proceedings were geared towards whether a scheme meeting should be called. On the proposed plan, Madam Loo said that many individual investors, including herself, will be " ruthlessly eliminated from the balance sheet with very little money or equity returned to them" . Madam Loo proposed " a minimum or waived coupon" payment on her securities but for her initial investment or principal to be kept on Hyflux' s books, The Straits Times understands. She cited the case of another elderly investor who had invested in 2,500 preference shares. " She is 86, lives alone in a one-room flat and... has mobility problems. She used Hyflux dividends to pay off some of her daily expenses. Now, she has no more earning power," she said. Asking for her proposal to be accepted, she said it is " a glimmer of hope" to recover her savings. https://www.straitstimes.com/business/retail-investor-offers-counter-proposal
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Starship Supreme	23-Feb-2019 20:32        Starship About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Retail investor offers counter proposal FEB 22, 2019, 5:00 AM SGT Madam Loo Leong Hun was 55 years old when she was given a list of corporate bonds in June 2012 by a DBS relationship manager to invest in as she had savings in her POSB account. " Hyflux preference shares was on the list, and it was strongly recommended as it was a strategic and national asset. The money was to facilitate expansion and build desalination plants. I thought I had invested in a good company... which was our nation' s pride," Madam Loo, now 62, told the High Court yesterday. One of some 34,000 registered holders of Hyflux perpetual securities and preference shares, Madam Loo was allowed yesterday by Justice Aedit Abdullah to voice her concerns, which he said are " shared by many of you" . But Justice Aedit added that he " may not be able to meet all of Madam Loo' s concerns (yesterday) afternoon" as court proceedings were geared towards whether a scheme meeting should be called. On the proposed plan, Madam Loo said that many individual investors, including herself, will be " ruthlessly eliminated from the balance sheet with very little money or equity returned to them" . Madam Loo proposed " a minimum or waived coupon" payment on her securities but for her initial investment or principal to be kept on Hyflux' s books, The Straits Times understands. She cited the case of another elderly investor who had invested in 2,500 preference shares. " She is 86, lives alone in a one-room flat and... has mobility problems. She used Hyflux dividends to pay off some of her daily expenses. Now, she has no more earning power," she said. Asking for her proposal to be accepted, she said it is " a glimmer of hope" to recover her savings. https://www.straitstimes.com/business/retail-investor-offers-counter-proposal
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kerier Veteran	23-Feb-2019 17:40        kerier About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	You want to take contract from PUB then you expect them to help when you fail? Will your boss help you if you are incompetent?  KAMAL0883      ( Date: 23-Feb-2019 15:02) Posted: haha PUB control here and there but never lend their hands to rescue or may be help to solve problem  kerier      ( Date: 23-Feb-2019 14:34) Posted: dont worry about that, the asset is in singapore. any hanky panky, PUB can just declare force majeure and regain control.
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Goldfinger Supreme	23-Feb-2019 17:15        Goldfinger About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Those who suffer losses can also consider their rights against the Board of Hyflux.  If you think there is a case, you have your rights to pursue action.
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Goldfinger Supreme	23-Feb-2019 17:11        Goldfinger About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Hyflux grabbed the Hyflux Water Trust at cheap price from minorities, without their consent. It was forced acquisition.  Many trust holders were against the buyout. This is karma.  Now the company is being grabbed away by foreigners at bargain price. Olivia is getting retribution.
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Nainai Member	23-Feb-2019 17:11        Nainai About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Use our tax payer money to help them?? Did they share the dividend when they received it? take money time why not have petition to ask them share? Now lose money kpkb ask tax payer bail out. Life where got so easy one angmohlin      ( Date: 23-Feb-2019 16:21) Posted: Hi all,  Whether you are victim or not, please go and sign the petition to help poor papa & mama. One day you may need help from others. Thanks. https://www.change.org/p/singapore-government-appeal-to-government-to-take-back-tuaspring-to-save-citizens-retirement-fund?fbclid=IwAR2_Bvmy-SeELZWTbI73kG6GjARe7_DT_USvPS2CsuSrfC_ZQJlWSwPkmkE
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angmohlin Veteran	23-Feb-2019 16:21        angmohlin About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Combined
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Hi all,  Whether you are victim or not, please go and sign the petition to help poor papa & mama. One day you may need help from others. Thanks. https://www.change.org/p/singapore-government-appeal-to-government-to-take-back-tuaspring-to-save-citizens-retirement-fund?fbclid=IwAR2_Bvmy-SeELZWTbI73kG6GjARe7_DT_USvPS2CsuSrfC_ZQJlWSwPkmkE
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Qanghoo Supreme	23-Feb-2019 15:48        Qanghoo About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Was that the reason for the govt to take over the rail n bus assets?  Did they do it at leylong prices? Observers      ( Date: 23-Feb-2019 15:27) Posted: If Tuaspring every few weeks one small break down, every few months one big break down, then I' d agree with you that Tuaspring is in need of an urgent Government intervention whose power I believe has already been vested in PUB as offtaker via black and white contract with Hyflux. We are not in such a situation at the moment, else I think even Salim would think twice putting up his $400mil for a debt-free Hyflux since Tuaspring is his primary consideration. Qanghoo      ( Date: 23-Feb-2019 15:15) Posted: According to Hflux, 2017 wholesale elec px was abt 80/mwh.  I don' t think the water supplied to PUB is tied to the fluctuation of wholesale elect px, is it?.  Anyway, the petition was appealing to the gov to buy over TS, not to mount a full rescue of hflux.  This proposal is not unprecedented.  Govt cld consider a buy n lease-back model, much akin to the one adopted for the public transport coys.
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investshare Supreme	23-Feb-2019 15:31        investshare About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	I am 101% sure that there is a clause that PUB can takeover the water plant at $1 if the operator not performing. KAMAL0883      ( Date: 23-Feb-2019 14:13) Posted: don' t be so short sighted, hyflux is National water strategy not ordinary commercial company. don' t you see our neighbor always use water cut  threaten us ? to rescue National strategy company is to rescue the country and the peoples as well as rescue country reputation. p.s. Mahatier is waiting and hoping to see we fail and fall........    government spend money can still earn back and if country control by outsiders then everyone will suffer      investshare      ( Date: 23-Feb-2019 10:42) Posted: If everyone lose money go to government, next time not only cpf, but your monthly salary also should pass to government to manage.
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mrscoop Member	23-Feb-2019 15:30        mrscoop About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	If want to say strategic national resource, why not just let hyflux liquidate then govt can acquire TS at a much cheaper price? save hyflux or dont save hyflux also can protect national assets but if dont save can get the assets much cheaper
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