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Operator81 Senior	27-Apr-2019 16:59        Operator81 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Many fools and their 💰 are soon parted.
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Sen9999 Member	27-Apr-2019 16:57        Sen9999 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Most of it comes from Dividend? They had been giving 40% of nett profit to their loyal investors for many years and I believe it has been a guideline to give back to their shareholders. Being the main shareholders they get their share of dividend when nett profit surge. If they are saying they inflated earnings then how their remuneration comes about? 😂 And besides they have been buying back shares and hasn't been selling, so how are they going to earn from the so called tripping? michaeltan      ( Date: 27-Apr-2019 16:19) Posted: I am long in BW. Don' t worry too much caused this is an episode between the short Bonitas and BW. There is no frausulent whatever. But judging from the Bonitas reports, it tends to attract many shorts and opportunists. I personal feel that the point brought up of 2 founders having earned 2 millions and surged to 20 millions in 2018 may render to suspicious scheme that management need to be clarified. Though this is a profit money go to company profit account or the scheme to enrish themselve. To my understanding, most of the companies doing well earned millions are coming from a salary cap + share award scheme or option.      Sen9999      ( Date: 27-Apr-2019 10:24) Posted: Yes I think this is true. It is threading in between the line of being legal and illegal. When I read the report, u see that BR is able to get the information quite readily(the commission scheme), unlike other MLM companies, I remember the most recent one I went, Worldventures, they are secretive from the start and super hardselling when you are there. Actually so far no one from China has complained right? The sales are earning money, the users are not forced to buy they are getting the result(facial condition) they want. And essentially they are providing employment to the weak labor market in those areas. Unless the company relaxed it's governance on the franchisee, to let them expand at a unlawful or greedy way, they will still be standing on the legal side
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michaeltan Master	27-Apr-2019 16:48        michaeltan About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Fundamental   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	If 20million is comint from salary cap + shares award scheme. This should be legitimate. Dividend is fair because this is for all shareholders across the board.  Rashi08      ( Date: 27-Apr-2019 13:42) Posted: The $40 million is the dividend payment pertaining to their shareholding. This is legit.
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Sen9999 Member	27-Apr-2019 16:47        Sen9999 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	So far based on the past 2 report, if they hadn't exit on the day of trading lift, they would have been burnt. Given the tone of this current report, should be high chance they will exit soon. However, it very much depends on the response from the company. Justice888      ( Date: 27-Apr-2019 16:05) Posted: Based on history. Once they is a short position open by short sellers . Usually the price will drop and drop. Just like the previous article by straits times. It only recover for one or two days. Then drop and drop. And drop Sen9999      ( Date: 27-Apr-2019 14:41) Posted: I wonder those who are deeply rooted on the short side, if BR leave on the day trade is lifted, will u guys still support them? 😂 Since they had already made their profit and only they know if their report is accurate or inaccurate.
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michaeltan Master	27-Apr-2019 16:19        michaeltan About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Fundamental   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	I am long in BW. Don' t worry too much caused this is an episode between the short Bonitas and BW. There is no frausulent whatever. But judging from the Bonitas reports, it tends to attract many shorts and opportunists. I personal feel that the point brought up of 2 founders having earned 2 millions and surged to 20 millions in 2018 may render to suspicious scheme that management need to be clarified. Though this is a profit money go to company profit account or the scheme to enrish themselve. To my understanding, most of the companies doing well earned millions are coming from a salary cap + share award scheme or option.      Sen9999      ( Date: 27-Apr-2019 10:24) Posted: Yes I think this is true. It is threading in between the line of being legal and illegal. When I read the report, u see that BR is able to get the information quite readily(the commission scheme), unlike other MLM companies, I remember the most recent one I went, Worldventures, they are secretive from the start and super hardselling when you are there. Actually so far no one from China has complained right? The sales are earning money, the users are not forced to buy they are getting the result(facial condition) they want. And essentially they are providing employment to the weak labor market in those areas. Unless the company relaxed it's governance on the franchisee, to let them expand at a unlawful or greedy way, they will still be standing on the legal side. stockpicker      ( Date: 27-Apr-2019 10:05) Posted: There are many different types of Franchise models now appearing in China. The newer type are more related to the MLM pyramid sellings.  They are illegal and they pull " people" （ 拉 人 头 ） by asking them to join as their Franchisees and promised them with handsome rewards.. the more people you can get to become the Franchisee,  the more you will earn.  There are also traditonal type but half cooked.  They got just a license that can sell only one product in one place but do all sort of Franchises also in other products in many other places.. the license is just to show that they have been approved by the Authority. This is because the Chinese Authorities are very strict especially for those selling non-traditional goods and products by simple promotion.   We think QuanJian (权 健 ） and Tenescc (天 师 ) belongs to latter type.  Their Franchisees might have practiced the first type (拉 人 头 ).. so we can say they are doing both.  However,  because they can bride the Authorities,  they went scot free in many court cases until they were exposed for over promoting their products and the traditional medical treatments that can heal cancers etc.. We do not know BWL is practicing which type in China as there were no information about their Franchise operation  in China.  They practice MLM selling in Taiwan and Philippines but they appear to keep mum about such work in these other countries. Anyway,  Taiwan and Philippines,  used to be the main earners,  are no longer returning much revenue in recent years. China is a big market and people there are moving very fast.  Everyone wanted to become rich over night. Think it is the place in the World that DS companies will do very well if they are prepared to take the risk,  practicing a mixture of legal and illegal businesses like the Chinese said,  &ldquo 挂 羊 头 卖 狗 肉 &ldquo .. The traditional DS selling is almost dead as the Authorities have very strict rules and successfully controlling it with the many actions like 百 日 行 动 ， web report on MLM activities etc..  How far these Franchise model will work with all the negative publicity about them,  this we must watch.. Thank you for reading
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Justice888 Supreme	27-Apr-2019 16:05        Justice888 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Based on history. Once they is a short position open by short sellers . Usually the price will drop and drop. Just like the previous article by straits times. It only recover for one or two days. Then drop and drop. And drop Sen9999      ( Date: 27-Apr-2019 14:41) Posted: I wonder those who are deeply rooted on the short side, if BR leave on the day trade is lifted, will u guys still support them? 😂 Since they had already made their profit and only they know if their report is accurate or inaccurate.
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Sen9999 Member	27-Apr-2019 14:41        Sen9999 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	I wonder those who are deeply rooted on the short side, if BR leave on the day trade is lifted, will u guys still support them? 😂 Since they had already made their profit and only they know if their report is accurate or inaccurate.
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beng1102 Elite	27-Apr-2019 14:21        beng1102 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	The clown from had cheat 40 million easily from the skills future credit and now in jail.  Running such a big business like BW wiht so much of cash transaction, only clown would think of cheating 20 million each is big and declare them as salary.  Look elsewhere in accounts for big money, it would be easily to cheat on the cash transactions . Operator81      ( Date: 27-Apr-2019 13:00) Posted: Dun bother, just fxxx any of them like what i did and you got them all covered. 40 million not a lot of money? This clown must be from Indo Starship      ( Date: 27-Apr-2019 10:21) Posted: Actually, some of these new accounts look suspiciously like alter egos of HH8888 with all the classic traits.....................
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Rashi08 Member	27-Apr-2019 14:11        Rashi08 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	BW issued shares in 2004 at $0.075 per share, since then no further right issue or bond issue to fund its operations and dividend payment. They pay dividend every year and yet debt is low. If their operations is dubious, can they do keep on dividend every year without resort to big borrowing or right issue or bond issue.
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Operator81 Senior	27-Apr-2019 13:59        Operator81 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	If you only look at one dimension of the equity market, declaring dividend is definitely legit for profitable and loss making companies. The same applied to our water company, declaring dividend is also legit. What we are seriously lacking in sg equity market is CLASS action.
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Rashi08 Member	27-Apr-2019 13:42        Rashi08 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	The $40 million is the dividend payment pertaining to their shareholding. This is legit.
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sbscap Master	27-Apr-2019 13:41        sbscap About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Fundamental   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Context. $40m compensation for what? For producing dubious profits? For creating something out of nothing? Another month of suspension and we will bring many people down to earth or send them to Hong Lim Park. Operator81      ( Date: 27-Apr-2019 13:00) Posted: Dun bother, just fxxx any of them like what i did and you got them all covered. 40 million not a lot of money? This clown must be from Indo Starship      ( Date: 27-Apr-2019 10:21) Posted: Actually, some of these new accounts look suspiciously like alter egos of HH8888 with all the classic traits.....................
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Operator81 Senior	27-Apr-2019 13:00        Operator81 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Dun bother, just fxxx any of them like what i did and you got them all covered. 40 million not a lot of money? This clown must be from Indo Starship      ( Date: 27-Apr-2019 10:21) Posted: Actually, some of these new accounts look suspiciously like alter egos of HH8888 with all the classic traits..................... bwavep      ( Date: 26-Apr-2019 19:22) Posted: oh really?  how nice for SJ....this is actually a healthy exercise for SJ forum.  we can assume the new accounts are either vested parties or market participents that feel compelled to comment. SJ should be happy with increased chatter and new accounts. and the forum participants can glean more points of views and share together....ideally it should be a positive thing (one positive takeaway from BW saga
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Sen9999 Member	27-Apr-2019 11:07        Sen9999 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 1   x 0  Alert Admin	I am a small time investor with tens of lots only 😂 . My wife uses and also has a small downline for the product. Attended some of their seminars as well. Invested during the miraculous rise in price last year. Invested because of the positive feel after visiting them a few times. Even discourage my wife to do due to the low commission scheme. But the products had really changed lives of some of her clients. If any case, nobody can deny their product is really good. So, I believe to invest in this company, can't just read reports, need to go down and see, have a feel, try to hear how they introduce u the product(usually after skin analysis or health test), no hardselling, no immediate recruitment. The experience feels even better than going to those over the counter products Starship      ( Date: 27-Apr-2019 10:21) Posted: Actually, some of these new accounts look suspiciously like alter egos of HH8888 with all the classic traits..................... bwavep      ( Date: 26-Apr-2019 19:22) Posted: oh really?  how nice for SJ....this is actually a healthy exercise for SJ forum.  we can assume the new accounts are either vested parties or market participents that feel compelled to comment. SJ should be happy with increased chatter and new accounts. and the forum participants can glean more points of views and share together....ideally it should be a positive thing (one positive takeaway from BW saga
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Sen9999 Member	27-Apr-2019 10:24        Sen9999 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Yes I think this is true. It is threading in between the line of being legal and illegal. When I read the report, u see that BR is able to get the information quite readily(the commission scheme), unlike other MLM companies, I remember the most recent one I went, Worldventures, they are secretive from the start and super hardselling when you are there. Actually so far no one from China has complained right? The sales are earning money, the users are not forced to buy they are getting the result(facial condition) they want. And essentially they are providing employment to the weak labor market in those areas. Unless the company relaxed it's governance on the franchisee, to let them expand at a unlawful or greedy way, they will still be standing on the legal side. stockpicker      ( Date: 27-Apr-2019 10:05) Posted: There are many different types of Franchise models now appearing in China. The newer type are more related to the MLM pyramid sellings.  They are illegal and they pull " people" （ 拉 人 头 ） by asking them to join as their Franchisees and promised them with handsome rewards.. the more people you can get to become the Franchisee,  the more you will earn.  There are also traditonal type but half cooked.  They got just a license that can sell only one product in one place but do all sort of Franchises also in other products in many other places.. the license is just to show that they have been approved by the Authority. This is because the Chinese Authorities are very strict especially for those selling non-traditional goods and products by simple promotion.   We think QuanJian (权 健 ） and Tenescc (天 师 ) belongs to latter type.  Their Franchisees might have practiced the first type (拉 人 头 ).. so we can say they are doing both.  However,  because they can bride the Authorities,  they went scot free in many court cases until they were exposed for over promoting their products and the traditional medical treatments that can heal cancers etc.. We do not know BWL is practicing which type in China as there were no information about their Franchise operation  in China.  They practice MLM selling in Taiwan and Philippines but they appear to keep mum about such work in these other countries. Anyway,  Taiwan and Philippines,  used to be the main earners,  are no longer returning much revenue in recent years. China is a big market and people there are moving very fast.  Everyone wanted to become rich over night. Think it is the place in the World that DS companies will do very well if they are prepared to take the risk,  practicing a mixture of legal and illegal businesses like the Chinese said,  &ldquo 挂 羊 头 卖 狗 肉 &ldquo .. The traditional DS selling is almost dead as the Authorities have very strict rules and successfully controlling it with the many actions like 百 日 行 动 ， web report on MLM activities etc..  How far these Franchise model will work with all the negative publicity about them,  this we must watch.. Thank you for reading   Sen9999      ( Date: 27-Apr-2019 06:25) Posted: I think we might be confused by franchise, direct selling and MLM. I am not sure if this is accurate but let me make this bold assumption. Franchise selling: Franchisor sell to franchisee, franchisee sell to customers (eg, I franchise Koi bubble tea, I sell to customers direct, no intermediaries), perfectly legal? So what BW I believe is doing is such, they sell to franchisee who sell to customers direct(already stated in their clarification and reports). Their customers can only buy from franchise. Then internally, within the franchise(probably own by the already high ranking sales rep) they have a ranking system, eg, director(PD), asst director(SD), senior manager etc, they earn commission when the franchise sells to a direct customer.(it's not prohibited to earn commission from sales right?). Major differences between direct selling and franchise model is for direct selling, u bring the product to the customer. But in franchise sell, customers come and buy product from you direct. And how BW franchises get their customers to buy from them direct is by their sales rep sharing on WeChat, weibo etc everyday. You see, the big hoo-har about 传 销 in China is that alot.of people are cheated because they are made to stock up using their savings, with promise that they will earn big money(usual MLM/Direct selling tactics). But for BW, sales rep are not required to stock up. So there is no need for direct selling license, some are fighting for direct selling license because they simply can't make customers go to them to buy, their sales reps have to buy and bring the product to them to sell.
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Starship Supreme	27-Apr-2019 10:21        Starship About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Actually, some of these new accounts look suspiciously like alter egos of HH8888 with all the classic traits..................... bwavep      ( Date: 26-Apr-2019 19:22) Posted: oh really?  how nice for SJ....this is actually a healthy exercise for SJ forum.  we can assume the new accounts are either vested parties or market participents that feel compelled to comment. SJ should be happy with increased chatter and new accounts. and the forum participants can glean more points of views and share together....ideally it should be a positive thing (one positive takeaway from BW saga) Starship      ( Date: 26-Apr-2019 17:42) Posted: So many new accounts in this BW thread nowadays, with posts only in this thread.................
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Sin_Cos_Tan Veteran	27-Apr-2019 10:15        Sin_Cos_Tan About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Any differences between business model of BW (DS) & Usana (MLM) ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USANA_Health_Sciences   Observers      ( Date: 27-Apr-2019 09:18) Posted: Past few days was running the rounds around Suntec/MBS area attending AGMs. USANA has got an army of direct sellers and all of them look so motivated at their event in Suntec. Wonder if Best World also have such an army, maybe the board or management can invite them to attend a seminar like USANA' s at Suntec then the shareholders can maybe interact with them as well to be more convinced of the business model. Vested. In Suntec Reit I mean.
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Sen9999 Member	27-Apr-2019 10:15        Sen9999 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Yes, read a few times. Fake accounting is a speculation. Using of approved license, long has this company stated they are no using the license to sell as DS.(which is why we should get to know the actual franchise model to determine if want they say is true) Specific zone to mislead down lines? zillion      ( Date: 27-Apr-2019 09:57) Posted: The 28 pgs of findings why they short BW - the various levels, fake accounting, the approved licence for a specific product and a specific zone to misled downlines it is legit.
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Sen9999 Member	27-Apr-2019 10:07        Sen9999 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Haha.. have to be open minded about there are indeed different models used, which are perfectly legal. I see revolution in the system to fit local regulations and ever-evolving consumer mindset. If all you thinking is it's same system, then kindly explain why law hasn't been caught up with them after so many years? Why nobody complained about the company in China whereas rumormongers are all the pple from aboard. zillion      ( Date: 27-Apr-2019 09:51) Posted: Whatever names you choose mlm, direct selling bla bla as long as there are various levels of selling a product it means only one thing. Suddenly there is now an education definition of what is mlm, direct selling, franchise thinking people here are stewpig.
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stockpicker Master	27-Apr-2019 10:05        stockpicker About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	There are many different types of Franchise models now appearing in China. The newer type are more related to the MLM pyramid sellings.  They are illegal and they pull " people" （ 拉 人 头 ） by asking them to join as their Franchisees and promised them with handsome rewards.. the more people you can get to become the Franchisee,  the more you will earn.  There are also traditonal type but half cooked.  They got just a license that can sell only one product in one place but do all sort of Franchises also in other products in many other places.. the license is just to show that they have been approved by the Authority. This is because the Chinese Authorities are very strict especially for those selling non-traditional goods and products by simple promotion.   We think QuanJian (权 健 ） and Tenescc (天 师 ) belongs to latter type.  Their Franchisees might have practiced the first type (拉 人 头 ).. so we can say they are doing both.  However,  because they can bride the Authorities,  they went scot free in many court cases until they were exposed for over promoting their products and the traditional medical treatments that can heal cancers etc.. We do not know BWL is practicing which type in China as there were no information about their Franchise operation  in China.  They practice MLM selling in Taiwan and Philippines but they appear to keep mum about such work in these other countries. Anyway,  Taiwan and Philippines,  used to be the main earners,  are no longer returning much revenue in recent years. China is a big market and people there are moving very fast.  Everyone wanted to become rich over night. Think it is the place in the World that DS companies will do very well if they are prepared to take the risk,  practicing a mixture of legal and illegal businesses like the Chinese said,  &ldquo 挂 羊 头 卖 狗 肉 &ldquo .. The traditional DS selling is almost dead as the Authorities have very strict rules and successfully controlling it with the many actions like 百 日 行 动 ， web report on MLM activities etc..  How far these Franchise model will work with all the negative publicity about them,  this we must watch.. Thank you for reading   Sen9999      ( Date: 27-Apr-2019 06:25) Posted: I think we might be confused by franchise, direct selling and MLM. I am not sure if this is accurate but let me make this bold assumption. Franchise selling: Franchisor sell to franchisee, franchisee sell to customers (eg, I franchise Koi bubble tea, I sell to customers direct, no intermediaries), perfectly legal? So what BW I believe is doing is such, they sell to franchisee who sell to customers direct(already stated in their clarification and reports). Their customers can only buy from franchise. Then internally, within the franchise(probably own by the already high ranking sales rep) they have a ranking system, eg, director(PD), asst director(SD), senior manager etc, they earn commission when the franchise sells to a direct customer.(it's not prohibited to earn commission from sales right?). Major differences between direct selling and franchise model is for direct selling, u bring the product to the customer. But in franchise sell, customers come and buy product from you direct. And how BW franchises get their customers to buy from them direct is by their sales rep sharing on WeChat, weibo etc everyday. You see, the big hoo-har about 传 销 in China is that alot.of people are cheated because they are made to stock up using their savings, with promise that they will earn big money(usual MLM/Direct selling tactics). But for BW, sales rep are not required to stock up. So there is no need for direct selling license, some are fighting for direct selling license because they simply can't make customers go to them to buy, their sales reps have to buy and bring the product to them to sell. stockpicker      ( Date: 26-Apr-2019 23:31) Posted: There are several types of Franchise business model now existing in China but generally can be divided into 2 types,    the legal one like Mcdonalds,  KFC,  Pizza Hut etc. there are also those which deal with services,  foods,  product selling like 联 通 3G&mdash 沃 店 .  The illegal ones are very new and plenty too like what described by this department.. these are actually one type of pyramid selling http://www.jxayyz.com/cx/index.html Here is video about this new type of illegal franchising business https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx-l0MQxpPE
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