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Sgvale Supreme	21-Feb-2018 19:37        Sgvale About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Hyflux keeps losing money. Very soon see 0.245.
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Reuben Member	21-Feb-2018 18:52        Reuben About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Assuming if this news is true is it illegal?
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john_ric Supreme	21-Feb-2018 18:17        john_ric About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	if interest can skip without  breaching any rule then they can always skip it conveniently. angmohlin      ( Date: 21-Feb-2018 16:25) Posted: Interest is cumulative. whenissued      ( Date: 21-Feb-2018 14:27) Posted: The second series of Hyflux 6% bonds,ie, the "Perps", do not have the cumulative interest feature. If Hyflux for some unknown reason does not pay the semi-annual interest for these perps, the interest does not accumulate till the next payment date. Only the first series, ie, the "CPS", has that. Anyway, if Hyflux does not pay either one of these bonds, it will cause a very, very drastic shockwave to the mother share and its overall business as a whole..
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KAMAL0883 Supreme	21-Feb-2018 17:04        KAMAL0883 About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Flexible   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	am waiting for MAS to say and do something  will OCBC and DBS can escape this time ?
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KAMAL0883 Supreme	21-Feb-2018 16:59        KAMAL0883 About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Flexible   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Hi Bro Thanks for sharing. This is super value info  xtoh07x      ( Date: 21-Feb-2018 16:53) Posted: Hi guys, im a newbie here, but also have a significant holdings (at least for me) in the Hyflux CPS. I found the following, and thought of sharing: Quote: OCBC plotting to screw DBS with Hyflux I will keep it short. Hyflux' s principal banker is DBS. OCBC initiated a internal credit report on Hyflux (not supposed to release to public but their dealers will leak to client through unofficial channels). The report claimed that Hyflux will not (likely) redeem their upcoming preference shares due in 28 April 2018. Days before the credit report was released, OCBC bond traders churned the Hyflux preference shares (SGX Code: N2H) in small volumes, buying them and reselling at even lower prices (at a loss), through their clients and proxies in UOB Kay Hian. There is no overnight short position, but just a relentless push to close Hyflux preference shares (SGX Code: N2H) and perpetual bonds (SGX Code: BTWZ) at lower prices. Hyflux' s ordinary shares crashed a few percent while bonds nose-dived in double digits yesterday after the credit report released. The stability of the ordinary share price hinted that the company is not in distress. However, the liquidity for bond market is low so it is easier to crash the bonds. Eg. Hyflux' s issued preference shares and perpetuals are $900 million to $1 billion in value and it takes only 0.2% of it ($2million) to crash the prices because bond investors don' t trade in and out like equities. DBS Treasures' clients have a sizeable position in the two Hyflux 6% preference and perpetual shares and suffered huge margin calls, several are sitting on losses above their capital due to their leverage. As a result, a force-selling was triggered. The intention was to disrupt DBS' s dominance in the SGD bond markets (underwriting and placement), wiping out a repeat customer for DBS and destroying the clients of DBS' s Treasures' RMs. In the same report, OCBC also admits that Hyflux has the ability to redeem the preference shares within a year or two. Based on current prices, investors stands to make about 35% within 2 months if Hyflux redeems the shares on April 2018 with a bridging loan from DBS, translating to a huge 200%pa returns. At this moment, OCBC is laughing their way to the bank as they start to bargain hunt for long-term positions while investors offloads. Unquote. Not sure validity, after all, anything that is taken online, should be with pinch of salt.
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xtoh07x Member	21-Feb-2018 16:53        xtoh07x About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Hi guys, im a newbie here, but also have a significant holdings (at least for me) in the Hyflux CPS. I found the following, and thought of sharing: Quote: OCBC plotting to screw DBS with Hyflux I will keep it short. Hyflux' s principal banker is DBS. OCBC initiated a internal credit report on Hyflux (not supposed to release to public but their dealers will leak to client through unofficial channels). The report claimed that Hyflux will not (likely) redeem their upcoming preference shares due in 28 April 2018. Days before the credit report was released, OCBC bond traders churned the Hyflux preference shares (SGX Code: N2H) in small volumes, buying them and reselling at even lower prices (at a loss), through their clients and proxies in UOB Kay Hian. There is no overnight short position, but just a relentless push to close Hyflux preference shares (SGX Code: N2H) and perpetual bonds (SGX Code: BTWZ) at lower prices. Hyflux' s ordinary shares crashed a few percent while bonds nose-dived in double digits yesterday after the credit report released. The stability of the ordinary share price hinted that the company is not in distress. However, the liquidity for bond market is low so it is easier to crash the bonds. Eg. Hyflux' s issued preference shares and perpetuals are $900 million to $1 billion in value and it takes only 0.2% of it ($2million) to crash the prices because bond investors don' t trade in and out like equities. DBS Treasures' clients have a sizeable position in the two Hyflux 6% preference and perpetual shares and suffered huge margin calls, several are sitting on losses above their capital due to their leverage. As a result, a force-selling was triggered. The intention was to disrupt DBS' s dominance in the SGD bond markets (underwriting and placement), wiping out a repeat customer for DBS and destroying the clients of DBS' s Treasures' RMs. In the same report, OCBC also admits that Hyflux has the ability to redeem the preference shares within a year or two. Based on current prices, investors stands to make about 35% within 2 months if Hyflux redeems the shares on April 2018 with a bridging loan from DBS, translating to a huge 200%pa returns. At this moment, OCBC is laughing their way to the bank as they start to bargain hunt for long-term positions while investors offloads. Unquote. Not sure validity, after all, anything that is taken online, should be with pinch of salt.
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john_ric Supreme	21-Feb-2018 16:28        john_ric About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	if  ms ceo run out of human wisdom then better pray hard to her god for helps sia. KAMAL0883      ( Date: 21-Feb-2018 15:28) Posted: not abt dare or dare not.... if they really no money to pay then kill them also no use. a good CEO must find a way to settle it otherwise better step down worst is company windup zillion      ( Date: 21-Feb-2018 14:56) Posted: No companies dare to default their coupon payments as that is the first sign of run road. Bonds holders are mainly mutual funds insurance funds banks. At 6% interest payments it makes sense to go for refinancing. Refinancing is one bread income for banks.
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angmohlin Veteran	21-Feb-2018 16:25        angmohlin About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Combined
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Interest is cumulative. whenissued      ( Date: 21-Feb-2018 14:27) Posted: The second series of Hyflux 6% bonds,ie, the "Perps", do not have the cumulative interest feature. If Hyflux for some unknown reason does not pay the semi-annual interest for these perps, the interest does not accumulate till the next payment date. Only the first series, ie, the "CPS", has that. Anyway, if Hyflux does not pay either one of these bonds, it will cause a very, very drastic shockwave to the mother share and its overall business as a whole... john_ric      ( Date: 21-Feb-2018 05:18) Posted: why the other hyflux 6% pcs which is callable on 2020 is falling even faster??
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KAMAL0883 Supreme	21-Feb-2018 15:28        KAMAL0883 About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Flexible   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	not abt dare or dare not.... if they really no money to pay then kill them also no use. a good CEO must find a way to settle it otherwise better step down worst is company windup zillion      ( Date: 21-Feb-2018 14:56) Posted: No companies dare to default their coupon payments as that is the first sign of run road. Bonds holders are mainly mutual funds insurance funds banks. At 6% interest payments it makes sense to go for refinancing. Refinancing is one bread income for banks.
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zillion Master	21-Feb-2018 14:56        zillion About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	No companies dare to default their coupon payments as that is the first sign of run road. Bonds holders are mainly mutual funds insurance funds banks. At 6% interest payments it makes sense to go for refinancing. Refinancing is one bread income for banks.
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KAMAL0883 Supreme	21-Feb-2018 14:35        KAMAL0883 About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Flexible   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	truth ! it' s something like carry a rock hitting on own foots who would want to buy their bonds for future issue also   whenissued      ( Date: 21-Feb-2018 14:27) Posted: The second series of Hyflux 6% bonds,ie, the "Perps", do not have the cumulative interest feature. If Hyflux for some unknown reason does not pay the semi-annual interest for these perps, the interest does not accumulate till the next payment date. Only the first series, ie, the "CPS", has that. Anyway, if Hyflux does not pay either one of these bonds, it will cause a very, very drastic shockwave to the mother share and its overall business as a whole... john_ric      ( Date: 21-Feb-2018 05:18) Posted: why the other hyflux 6% pcs which is callable on 2020 is falling even faster??
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whenissued Member	21-Feb-2018 14:27        whenissued About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Combined   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	The second series of Hyflux 6% bonds,ie, the "Perps", do not have the cumulative interest feature. If Hyflux for some unknown reason does not pay the semi-annual interest for these perps, the interest does not accumulate till the next payment date. Only the first series, ie, the "CPS", has that. Anyway, if Hyflux does not pay either one of these bonds, it will cause a very, very drastic shockwave to the mother share and its overall business as a whole... john_ric      ( Date: 21-Feb-2018 05:18) Posted: why the other hyflux 6% pcs which is callable on 2020 is falling even faster??
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SuperLuckyCorn Supreme	21-Feb-2018 09:13        SuperLuckyCorn About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Flexible   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Yes. We lai liao...Chiong ah M1 Chiong ah Singtel...Chiong Chiong Huat Huat all the way. genting^2      ( Date: 21-Feb-2018 08:44) Posted: Too much unnecessary fear!
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genting^2 Master	21-Feb-2018 08:44        genting^2 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Too much unnecessary fear!
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john_ric Supreme	21-Feb-2018 05:18        john_ric About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	why the other hyflux 6% pcs which is callable on 2020 is falling even faster??
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whenissued Member	21-Feb-2018 00:12        whenissued About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Combined   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Negative cashflow alone does not conclude a stock is problematic. Other metrics are needed to confirm the stock's condition. Hyflux in my personal opinion has overexpanded and overcommitted to too many projects requiring huge funding (ie, negative cashflow). If everything went well for all the projects, Olivia Lum would have been smiling all the way to the bank. Instead, a few business bridges were burned and now recovering outstanding accounts receivables is going to take a lot more effort and time, both which are in very short supply for Hyflux. Taking a gamble on "insanely cheap" Hyflux bonds could reap a potential windfall or totally wipe out! Dare to try? Only if you have money that you can afford to lose... investshare      ( Date: 20-Feb-2018 22:23) Posted: But Hyflux already negative cash flow for so long, no need insider to tell you the problem. whenissued      ( Date: 20-Feb-2018 21:30) Posted: Hyflux 6% CPS has been tanking for some time. As a forumer has earlier pointed out, the yield for this CPS would now technically be 10%+ IF AND ONLY IF the bond interest is paid out. If the bond interest is not paid, the following will automatically kick in as per the terms and conditions of the CPS issue: (1) the bond interest accumulates and will "carry over" to the next scheduled bond interest payment date (2) since the "P" in the CPS stands for "Preference", if no bond interest payment is made, the Hyflux mother share shall receive no dividend payment absolutely. This "default in bond interest payment" scenario will definitely cause an instant loss of confidence in Hyflux as a going business concern. Hyflux mother shares will tank drastically akin to a run on a bank. Since short-selling has been allowed in Singapore, the skanky BB short-sellers will come and play and drive all Hyflux securities downwards at a faster clip. Looks like the selling has started on the bond issues. Or has someone with insider information know something that we the public don't know and is bailing out/short-selling to make obscene profits? Your guess is as good as mine...
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whenissued Member	20-Feb-2018 23:58        whenissued About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Combined   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	April and October... Reuben      ( Date: 20-Feb-2018 21:45) Posted: Any idea when is the bond payout dates? whenissued      ( Date: 20-Feb-2018 21:30) Posted: Hyflux 6% CPS has been tanking for some time. As a forumer has earlier pointed out, the yield for this CPS would now technically be 10%+ IF AND ONLY IF the bond interest is paid out. If the bond interest is not paid, the following will automatically kick in as per the terms and conditions of the CPS issue: (1) the bond interest accumulates and will "carry over" to the next scheduled bond interest payment date (2) since the "P" in the CPS stands for "Preference", if no bond interest payment is made, the Hyflux mother share shall receive no dividend payment absolutely. This "default in bond interest payment" scenario will definitely cause an instant loss of confidence in Hyflux as a going business concern. Hyflux mother shares will tank drastically akin to a run on a bank. Since short-selling has been allowed in Singapore, the skanky BB short-sellers will come and play and drive all Hyflux securities downwards at a faster clip. Looks like the selling has started on the bond issues. Or has someone with insider information know something that we the public don't know and is bailing out/short-selling to make obscene profits? Your guess is as good as mine...
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investshare Supreme	20-Feb-2018 22:23        investshare About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	But Hyflux already negative cash flow for so long, no need insider to tell you the problem. whenissued      ( Date: 20-Feb-2018 21:30) Posted: Hyflux 6% CPS has been tanking for some time. As a forumer has earlier pointed out, the yield for this CPS would now technically be 10%+ IF AND ONLY IF the bond interest is paid out. If the bond interest is not paid, the following will automatically kick in as per the terms and conditions of the CPS issue: (1) the bond interest accumulates and will "carry over" to the next scheduled bond interest payment date (2) since the "P" in the CPS stands for "Preference", if no bond interest payment is made, the Hyflux mother share shall receive no dividend payment absolutely. This "default in bond interest payment" scenario will definitely cause an instant loss of confidence in Hyflux as a going business concern. Hyflux mother shares will tank drastically akin to a run on a bank. Since short-selling has been allowed in Singapore, the skanky BB short-sellers will come and play and drive all Hyflux securities downwards at a faster clip. Looks like the selling has started on the bond issues. Or has someone with insider information know something that we the public don't know and is bailing out/short-selling to make obscene profits? Your guess is as good as mine...
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Reuben Member	20-Feb-2018 21:45        Reuben About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Any idea when is the bond payout dates? whenissued      ( Date: 20-Feb-2018 21:30) Posted: Hyflux 6% CPS has been tanking for some time. As a forumer has earlier pointed out, the yield for this CPS would now technically be 10%+ IF AND ONLY IF the bond interest is paid out. If the bond interest is not paid, the following will automatically kick in as per the terms and conditions of the CPS issue: (1) the bond interest accumulates and will "carry over" to the next scheduled bond interest payment date (2) since the "P" in the CPS stands for "Preference", if no bond interest payment is made, the Hyflux mother share shall receive no dividend payment absolutely. This "default in bond interest payment" scenario will definitely cause an instant loss of confidence in Hyflux as a going business concern. Hyflux mother shares will tank drastically akin to a run on a bank. Since short-selling has been allowed in Singapore, the skanky BB short-sellers will come and play and drive all Hyflux securities downwards at a faster clip. Looks like the selling has started on the bond issues. Or has someone with insider information know something that we the public don't know and is bailing out/short-selling to make obscene profits? Your guess is as good as mine...
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whenissued Member	20-Feb-2018 21:30        whenissued About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Combined   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Hyflux 6% CPS has been tanking for some time. As a forumer has earlier pointed out, the yield for this CPS would now technically be 10%+ IF AND ONLY IF the bond interest is paid out. If the bond interest is not paid, the following will automatically kick in as per the terms and conditions of the CPS issue: (1) the bond interest accumulates and will "carry over" to the next scheduled bond interest payment date (2) since the "P" in the CPS stands for "Preference", if no bond interest payment is made, the Hyflux mother share shall receive no dividend payment absolutely. This "default in bond interest payment" scenario will definitely cause an instant loss of confidence in Hyflux as a going business concern. Hyflux mother shares will tank drastically akin to a run on a bank. Since short-selling has been allowed in Singapore, the skanky BB short-sellers will come and play and drive all Hyflux securities downwards at a faster clip. Looks like the selling has started on the bond issues. Or has someone with insider information know something that we the public don't know and is bailing out/short-selling to make obscene profits? Your guess is as good as mine...
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