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PhillipTan Supreme	01-Jul-2021 08:41        PhillipTan About Contact  Quote this Post!   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	In the event where the borrower fails to return and CDP:fails to buy back from the open market, the shares would be considered sold and settled Just for a few dollars, this can of worms may cause someone to lose their shares unwittingly, maybe even at a loss Part of the reason why I didn' t do it even though knowing about it Blowyouoff      ( Date: 01-Jul-2021 08:01) Posted: That' s why I said someone just open a canned worm by sharing investors who own shares in cdp (those under custodians cannot seem to earn interest) can actually earn interest by lending out their shares. In fact, from below, interest is very tempting  taking away the risk of price fluctuations, it is very profitable to park savings in the forms of shares and lend them out(assuming there are borrowers everyday). Having said this, if there are borrowers every day. It also means the counter is highly shorted and to some people' believe, there could be consequence to share price  Midtermer      ( Date: 01-Jul-2021 07:44) Posted: I suggest not to further discuss the interest rate as it does no good to the counter.
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msksmsks Supreme	01-Jul-2021 08:16        msksmsks About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Precisely. Why keep harping this issue instead of focusing on other merits of.the Co. Least worry abt the short sellers to a fundamentally strong Co as it wl backfire sooner or later. Hv previously loan my Genting shares to Philips before to earn some interest but later been returned when the tide had changed. This wl prevail again. Hv faith. Cheers Midtermer      ( Date: 01-Jul-2021 07:44) Posted: I suggest not to further discuss the interest rate as it does no good to the counter. PhillipTan      ( Date: 01-Jul-2021 05:03) Posted: Interest is charged/paid on a daily basis Eg. 8.5% for RS shares worth $25k borrowed for 3 days, the total interest is only about $17.47 For RS shares worth $100k borrowed for 3 days, the interest will be around $69.86 Is that a lot
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investor999 Elite	01-Jul-2021 08:11        investor999 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Borrowers of shares should be seeking to buy back now. Riverstone hit the triple bottom at 1.21
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Blowyouoff Veteran	01-Jul-2021 08:01        Blowyouoff About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	That' s why I said someone just open a canned worm by sharing investors who own shares in cdp (those under custodians cannot seem to earn interest) can actually earn interest by lending out their shares. In fact, from below, interest is very tempting  taking away the risk of price fluctuations, it is very profitable to park savings in the forms of shares and lend them out(assuming there are borrowers everyday). Having said this, if there are borrowers every day. It also means the counter is highly shorted and to some people' believe, there could be consequence to share price  Midtermer      ( Date: 01-Jul-2021 07:44) Posted: I suggest not to further discuss the interest rate as it does no good to the counter. PhillipTan      ( Date: 01-Jul-2021 05:03) Posted: Interest is charged/paid on a daily basis Eg. 8.5% for RS shares worth $25k borrowed for 3 days, the total interest is only about $17.47 For RS shares worth $100k borrowed for 3 days, the interest will be around $69.86 Is that a lot
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Midtermer Master	01-Jul-2021 07:44        Midtermer About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	I suggest not to further discuss the interest rate as it does no good to the counter. PhillipTan      ( Date: 01-Jul-2021 05:03) Posted: Interest is charged/paid on a daily basis Eg. 8.5% for RS shares worth $25k borrowed for 3 days, the total interest is only about $17.47 For RS shares worth $100k borrowed for 3 days, the interest will be around $69.86 Is that a lot? Traveler      ( Date: 30-Jun-2021 22:40) Posted: At a borrowing rate of 8.5%, looks like it is expensive for shortists to loan RS share
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PhillipTan Supreme	01-Jul-2021 05:03        PhillipTan About Contact  Quote this Post!   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Interest is charged/paid on a daily basis Eg. 8.5% for RS shares worth $25k borrowed for 3 days, the total interest is only about $17.47 For RS shares worth $100k borrowed for 3 days, the interest will be around $69.86 Is that a lot? Traveler      ( Date: 30-Jun-2021 22:40) Posted: At a borrowing rate of 8.5%, looks like it is expensive for shortists to loan RS share. highlander      ( Date: 30-Jun-2021 16:32) Posted: Nice to read the various sharings to see what we can do to protect our interest for a fundamentally strong share we invested in.  I just checked online the CDP Securities Borrowing & Lending (SBL) Pool and the Lending Pool for Riverstone is rather high at 3,409,800 shares. Also, the lending and borrowing rates are the highest in the pool at 5.95% and 8.5% respectively !! Anyone care to provide some interpretation on this?
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PhillipTan Supreme	01-Jul-2021 04:56        PhillipTan About Contact  Quote this Post!   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	We can do it but with conditions attached which may not seem favourable to some Mainly the three points I have highlighted in my last post If you don' t mind such things happening, the worst of which (in very rare cases) is shares being sold after being loaned out, you can take that risk by lending out your shares for minimal interests that can be earned Eg. $3.42 interest daily for shares worth $25k at a lending rate of 5%   Blowyouoff      ( Date: 30-Jun-2021 22:22) Posted: You have just opened a canned worm by announcing that we can lend out our cdp shares in return for interest  Blowyouoff      ( Date: 30-Jun-2021 22:13) Posted: The rates offered for Riverstone is very high and tempting
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PhillipTan Supreme	01-Jul-2021 04:48        PhillipTan About Contact  Quote this Post!   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	From my understanding, shares held in CDP will be strictly kept in CDP By default, all the shares in CDP will not be used for lending The shares will only be available for loan if the CDP holder himself/herself makes an application to CDP to agree to allow their shares to be loaned out That is why CDP will pay interest for shares that are loaned out Lending of shares by CDP is not by a certain percentage of all shares held in CDP I believe I had said something similar earlier To add on further why CDP is not able to loan your shares out without your consent - Payment for dividends of loaned shares to the shareholders will be delayed as the dividend payment will first go to the borrower, and be collected and returned to you at a later date by CDP - Owners of loaned shares will lose their rights to attend AGMs and also their voting rights  - In very rare cases where the borrowing party fails to return the shares and CDP is unable to acquire shares on open market to return them to the lender, the shares will be considered as sold and cash settled at the price when the shares were loaned out Things are not the same for custodian brokers/trading houses because those shares purchased are not held in the investors' names Hence, they do not need your consent to loan out the shares as those shares are held in their names NT1825      ( Date: 30-Jun-2021 21:30) Posted: Let' s say CDP keeps 1000,000 XYZ shares. The shares are of zero value to CDP if they are kept in storage doing nothing Assuming CDP takes a calculated risk and decides to loan 50% of the 1000,000 shares to 5 trading houses. Each trading house will be given an allocation of 100,000 shares. So 5 trading house can trade a maximum of 500,000 shares. They pay x% interest to CDP. CDP will impose T & C for such use of facility. Eg every end of week, CDP will publish online the updated available  shares for loan and trading houses must agree that the allocation given to them may change every week and CDP have right to re-call when needed.   Example: When XYZ shares kept in CDP drops to 800,000 in the following week - the new allocation of shares to each trading house will be adjusted to 80,000 each https://www1.cdp.sgx.com/sgx-cdp-web/lendingpool/show   Complex? -  Not really. Investors just need to understand the basic principles. On a normal trading day, hundreds of thousands of trades, loans, transfers and exchanges will take place. This may seem complex for the average person. With the use of advanced data management applications and reliable data centres, such daily trades, loans etc can be managed quite accurately. The complex part is being handled by super-computers, not humans. Investors need not worry about this. PhillipTan      ( Date: 30-Jun-2021 18:28) Posted: The shares lending interest that the custodian brokers/trading houses earn is very minimal, so they profit via mass lending of shares If they don' t take into account of these fake sell queues and ends up overlending when shares get sold beyond their holding, they will need to borrow shares to cover In other words they will become no different from any other shortist The potential risk of loss from shorting easily outweigh the potential earnings from shares lending interests which is very little So imo they will not want to go into that position of being a shortist, even if it is a fake sell queue, they probably will want to take it into consideration and this may eventually help to shrink the pool of shares available for lending That being said, this is all " theory" to us because only those people working inside the custodian broker/trading houses will know exactly how they derive the number of shares available for lending Anyone here working for the custodian brokers/trading houses?
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TradeExpert Veteran	01-Jul-2021 04:19        TradeExpert About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	In the short term, likelihood to head down to around $1.08 and find some support around the region. Short to Mid Term, somewhat unknown to this counter. May Chiong or head south further depending on further developments/news. As the pandemic improves, people may just exit to protect their profits and go and invest in other counters. That' s reality.  Let' s see what unfolds within 3 months.
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NT1825 Master	30-Jun-2021 23:00        NT1825 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	8.5% is for one year. In one year the borrowed shares can be used many times. Each cycle is from T to T+ 4 days ?? Traveler      ( Date: 30-Jun-2021 22:40) Posted: At a borrowing rate of 8.5%, looks like it is expensive for shortists to loan RS share. highlander      ( Date: 30-Jun-2021 16:32) Posted: Nice to read the various sharings to see what we can do to protect our interest for a fundamentally strong share we invested in.  I just checked online the CDP Securities Borrowing & Lending (SBL) Pool and the Lending Pool for Riverstone is rather high at 3,409,800 shares. Also, the lending and borrowing rates are the highest in the pool at 5.95% and 8.5% respectively !! Anyone care to provide some interpretation on this?
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Sgvale Supreme	30-Jun-2021 22:55        Sgvale About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Continuous fall . Time to shoot up!
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Jasongan Member	30-Jun-2021 22:49        Jasongan About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Sign petition for malaysia to ban shortselling thus effect glove sentiments https://www.change.org/p/pelabur-runcit-bursa-malaysia-mohon-tengku-zafrul-memberhentikan-restricted-short-selling-rss-seperti-march20?signed=true
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Traveler Member	30-Jun-2021 22:40        Traveler About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	At a borrowing rate of 8.5%, looks like it is expensive for shortists to loan RS share. highlander      ( Date: 30-Jun-2021 16:32) Posted: Nice to read the various sharings to see what we can do to protect our interest for a fundamentally strong share we invested in.  I just checked online the CDP Securities Borrowing & Lending (SBL) Pool and the Lending Pool for Riverstone is rather high at 3,409,800 shares. Also, the lending and borrowing rates are the highest in the pool at 5.95% and 8.5% respectively !! Anyone care to provide some interpretation on this? NT1825      ( Date: 30-Jun-2021 14:37) Posted: Thanks folks We invest in stocks to get a decent returns, not to devalue our portfolio.  We have to do it together, to suppress borrowings. Pass on the message/ learnings to your friends relative so on While short play is being suppressed, insider holders or SSH will buy up and help stock price go up. [ This effort needs $$, our part to place SELL order dont need $$ ] Yes CDP is one of the lenders - the available stock quantity fluctuates everyday. I am guessing a certain percentage is being offered to borrowers, a calculated risk is taken
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Blowyouoff Veteran	30-Jun-2021 22:22        Blowyouoff About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	You have just opened a canned worm by announcing that we can lend out our cdp shares in return for interest  Blowyouoff      ( Date: 30-Jun-2021 22:13) Posted: The rates offered for Riverstone is very high and tempting  Blowyouoff      ( Date: 30-Jun-2021 22:11) Posted: New to me.. holders of shares in cdp can earn interest by lending out and thus worthwhile to lend out .. as opposed to custodian which doesn' t seem to compensate the owners of the shares
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Blowyouoff Veteran	30-Jun-2021 22:13        Blowyouoff About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	The rates offered for Riverstone is very high and tempting  Blowyouoff      ( Date: 30-Jun-2021 22:11) Posted: New to me.. holders of shares in cdp can earn interest by lending out and thus worthwhile to lend out .. as opposed to custodian which doesn' t seem to compensate the owners of the shares  NT1825      ( Date: 30-Jun-2021 21:30) Posted: Let' s say CDP keeps 1000,000 XYZ shares. The shares are of zero value to CDP if they are kept in storage doing nothing Assuming CDP takes a calculated risk and decides to loan 50% of the 1000,000 shares to 5 trading houses. Each trading house will be given an allocation of 100,000 shares. So 5 trading house can trade a maximum of 500,000 shares. They pay x% interest to CDP. CDP will impose T & C for such use of facility. Eg every end of week, CDP will publish online the updated available  shares for loan and trading houses must agree that the allocation given to them may change every week and CDP have right to re-call when needed.   Example: When XYZ shares kept in CDP drops to 800,000 in the following week - the new allocation of shares to each trading house will be adjusted to 80,000 each https://www1.cdp.sgx.com/sgx-cdp-web/lendingpool/show   Complex? -  Not really. Investors just need to understand the basic principles. On a normal trading day, hundreds of thousands of trades, loans, transfers and exchanges will take place. This may seem complex for the average person. With the use of advanced data management applications and reliable data centres, such daily trades, loans etc can be managed quite accurately. The complex part is being handled by super-computers, not humans. Investors need not worry about this.
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Blowyouoff Veteran	30-Jun-2021 22:11        Blowyouoff About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	New to me.. holders of shares in cdp can earn interest by lending out and thus worthwhile to lend out .. as opposed to custodian which doesn' t seem to compensate the owners of the shares  NT1825      ( Date: 30-Jun-2021 21:30) Posted: Let' s say CDP keeps 1000,000 XYZ shares. The shares are of zero value to CDP if they are kept in storage doing nothing Assuming CDP takes a calculated risk and decides to loan 50% of the 1000,000 shares to 5 trading houses. Each trading house will be given an allocation of 100,000 shares. So 5 trading house can trade a maximum of 500,000 shares. They pay x% interest to CDP. CDP will impose T & C for such use of facility. Eg every end of week, CDP will publish online the updated available  shares for loan and trading houses must agree that the allocation given to them may change every week and CDP have right to re-call when needed.   Example: When XYZ shares kept in CDP drops to 800,000 in the following week - the new allocation of shares to each trading house will be adjusted to 80,000 each https://www1.cdp.sgx.com/sgx-cdp-web/lendingpool/show   Complex? -  Not really. Investors just need to understand the basic principles. On a normal trading day, hundreds of thousands of trades, loans, transfers and exchanges will take place. This may seem complex for the average person. With the use of advanced data management applications and reliable data centres, such daily trades, loans etc can be managed quite accurately. The complex part is being handled by super-computers, not humans. Investors need not worry about this. PhillipTan      ( Date: 30-Jun-2021 18:28) Posted: The shares lending interest that the custodian brokers/trading houses earn is very minimal, so they profit via mass lending of shares If they don' t take into account of these fake sell queues and ends up overlending when shares get sold beyond their holding, they will need to borrow shares to cover In other words they will become no different from any other shortist The potential risk of loss from shorting easily outweigh the potential earnings from shares lending interests which is very little So imo they will not want to go into that position of being a shortist, even if it is a fake sell queue, they probably will want to take it into consideration and this may eventually help to shrink the pool of shares available for lending That being said, this is all " theory" to us because only those people working inside the custodian broker/trading houses will know exactly how they derive the number of shares available for lending Anyone here working for the custodian brokers/trading houses?
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NT1825 Master	30-Jun-2021 21:30        NT1825 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Let' s say CDP keeps 1000,000 XYZ shares. The shares are of zero value to CDP if they are kept in storage doing nothing Assuming CDP takes a calculated risk and decides to loan 50% of the 1000,000 shares to 5 trading houses. Each trading house will be given an allocation of 100,000 shares. So 5 trading house can trade a maximum of 500,000 shares. They pay x% interest to CDP. CDP will impose T & C for such use of facility. Eg every end of week, CDP will publish online the updated available  shares for loan and trading houses must agree that the allocation given to them may change every week and CDP have right to re-call when needed.   Example: When XYZ shares kept in CDP drops to 800,000 in the following week - the new allocation of shares to each trading house will be adjusted to 80,000 each https://www1.cdp.sgx.com/sgx-cdp-web/lendingpool/show   Complex? -  Not really. Investors just need to understand the basic principles. On a normal trading day, hundreds of thousands of trades, loans, transfers and exchanges will take place. This may seem complex for the average person. With the use of advanced data management applications and reliable data centres, such daily trades, loans etc can be managed quite accurately. The complex part is being handled by super-computers, not humans. Investors need not worry about this. PhillipTan      ( Date: 30-Jun-2021 18:28) Posted: The shares lending interest that the custodian brokers/trading houses earn is very minimal, so they profit via mass lending of shares If they don' t take into account of these fake sell queues and ends up overlending when shares get sold beyond their holding, they will need to borrow shares to cover In other words they will become no different from any other shortist The potential risk of loss from shorting easily outweigh the potential earnings from shares lending interests which is very little So imo they will not want to go into that position of being a shortist, even if it is a fake sell queue, they probably will want to take it into consideration and this may eventually help to shrink the pool of shares available for lending That being said, this is all " theory" to us because only those people working inside the custodian broker/trading houses will know exactly how they derive the number of shares available for lending Anyone here working for the custodian brokers/trading houses?   Blowyouoff      ( Date: 30-Jun-2021 15:02) Posted: In theory, it sounds like putting in sell Q will disable brokerage firm from lending out this shares  in reality, these shares are still under custodian and not sold. Brokerage can still loan them out. There is no regulation from MAS that disallows brokerage from lending out... if there is regulation, it will help. Or else everything that is being discussed here is pure theory
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Blowyouoff Veteran	30-Jun-2021 19:03        Blowyouoff About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Read below.. this strategy to place a sell q is suggested. Read the response by someone who claimed to be in brokerage for 30 years. As we mentioned, even if you place a sell q, the stocks are not sold and still with brokerage. They still can loan them out  https://www.contracts-for-difference.com/borrowing-lending-shares.html PhillipTan      ( Date: 30-Jun-2021 18:28) Posted: The shares lending interest that the custodian brokers/trading houses earn is very minimal, so they profit via mass lending of shares If they don' t take into account of these fake sell queues and ends up overlending when shares get sold beyond their holding, they will need to borrow shares to cover In other words they will become no different from any other shortist The potential risk of loss from shorting easily outweigh the potential earnings from shares lending interests which is very little So imo they will not want to go into that position of being a shortist, even if it is a fake sell queue, they probably will want to take it into consideration and this may eventually help to shrink the pool of shares available for lending That being said, this is all " theory" to us because only those people working inside the custodian broker/trading houses will know exactly how they derive the number of shares available for lending Anyone here working for the custodian brokers/trading houses?   Blowyouoff      ( Date: 30-Jun-2021 15:02) Posted: In theory, it sounds like putting in sell Q will disable brokerage firm from lending out this shares  in reality, these shares are still under custodian and not sold. Brokerage can still loan them out. There is no regulation from MAS that disallows brokerage from lending out... if there is regulation, it will help. Or else everything that is being discussed here is pure theory
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Blowyouoff Veteran	30-Jun-2021 18:41        Blowyouoff About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	I think you all talking about trying to outsmart a whole complex system.. too far fetch liao lah don' t forget, some longists are shortist at times.. and many also either value or are neutral, including myself)   towards presence of shortists If people can be influence easily, why not try to   influence the whole group of SJ traders to long or to buy up whatever others are selling   to control price instead? Won' t this be easier than to try to outsmart a system(which requires cooperation of all   custodian accounts holders)? PhillipTan      ( Date: 30-Jun-2021 18:28) Posted: The shares lending interest that the custodian brokers/trading houses earn is very minimal, so they profit via mass lending of shares If they don' t take into account of these fake sell queues and ends up overlending when shares get sold beyond their holding, they will need to borrow shares to cover In other words they will become no different from any other shortist The potential risk of loss from shorting easily outweigh the potential earnings from shares lending interests which is very little So imo they will not want to go into that position of being a shortist, even if it is a fake sell queue, they probably will want to take it into consideration and this may eventually help to shrink the pool of shares available for lending That being said, this is all " theory" to us because only those people working inside the custodian broker/trading houses will know exactly how they derive the number of shares available for lending Anyone here working for the custodian brokers/trading houses?   Blowyouoff      ( Date: 30-Jun-2021 15:02) Posted: In theory, it sounds like putting in sell Q will disable brokerage firm from lending out this shares  in reality, these shares are still under custodian and not sold. Brokerage can still loan them out. There is no regulation from MAS that disallows brokerage from lending out... if there is regulation, it will help. Or else everything that is being discussed here is pure theory
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PhillipTan Supreme	30-Jun-2021 18:28        PhillipTan About Contact  Quote this Post!   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	The shares lending interest that the custodian brokers/trading houses earn is very minimal, so they profit via mass lending of shares If they don' t take into account of these fake sell queues and ends up overlending when shares get sold beyond their holding, they will need to borrow shares to cover In other words they will become no different from any other shortist The potential risk of loss from shorting easily outweigh the potential earnings from shares lending interests which is very little So imo they will not want to go into that position of being a shortist, even if it is a fake sell queue, they probably will want to take it into consideration and this may eventually help to shrink the pool of shares available for lending That being said, this is all " theory" to us because only those people working inside the custodian broker/trading houses will know exactly how they derive the number of shares available for lending Anyone here working for the custodian brokers/trading houses?   Blowyouoff      ( Date: 30-Jun-2021 15:02) Posted: In theory, it sounds like putting in sell Q will disable brokerage firm from lending out this shares  in reality, these shares are still under custodian and not sold. Brokerage can still loan them out. There is no regulation from MAS that disallows brokerage from lending out... if there is regulation, it will help. Or else everything that is being discussed here is pure theory  PhillipTan      ( Date: 30-Jun-2021 13:34) Posted: Using bank as example Banks will not use 100% of your deposited money for loans such as housing, car or company loans etc  (Ie. shares for shorting) They will keep a percentage of it untouched for their own cashflow, such as for people to withdraw money (ie. set aside for people who put shares into sell queues) It won' t be an exact amount, just an estimate with buffer maybe based on historical averages or historical seasonal fluctuations etc. When more people start putting the shares into " fake" sell queues, it will push the brokers/trading houses to increase their holdings as well as buffer Because the demand and potential of shares outflow increases They can borrow from other brokers/trading houses if they overlend, but this will result in trading risks for them which they are not likely to want to take Because if the share price rises when they cover back, they may potentially lose a lot more compared to the minimal amount they earn from the shares lending interest I think what NT1825 is saying is that If more and more people start doing the " fake" sell queues thing, the available pool of shares that short sellers can borrow from will eventually become smaller Indirectly putting a limit to how much shorting that can be done This only applies to borrowed shares for shorting, however there is no effect on intraday shorting though Correct me if I am wrong here
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