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Latest Forum Topics / Hyflux    Last:0.21 --  Post Reply
Hyflux
tonylim70
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20-Jun-2018 09:17     
 
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 Alert Admin 		Wrong leh bro, first if Tuas Spring cannot hold on, then it will be liquidated and all the plants equipments will be auctioned off to pay the creditors etc.. the govt wun get it for free.

2nd, ur formula u used 1.3b/20 years ... if govt take over, it becomes 1.3b/infinity becos concession of 20 years will become infinity if govt take over. Then is different ball game liao..

3rd. If mahathir suddenly wants to " void" the water supply contract etc, then this tuas spring will become hot leh

Stephenchow      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 09:08) Posted:

Govt has the upper hand and time is on their side:-

1. They have three listed GLCs ready to run the plant if need to (Singspring is already with Keppel Infrastructure Trust)
2. They will fine you if you cannot supply water for a day
3. At 2038, you need to hand over the plant to them F.O.C
Without even need to spend a single cent and at zero risk , they get the plant from you FOC @ 2038.

1.3b (purchase cost) + 1.6b (if loss at $80m a year for the next 20 year ) = $2.9b (this is the cost that may run up to for a buyer.    This money is enough for us to buy a few squadrons of F35 fighter jets to show off to our neighbours.)  laughlaugh









   

tonylim70      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 08:44) Posted:

hahahaha... think of it... if u are the govt.. u see a distress party trying to offload Tuas Spring...

Why not buy over it at a certain discount or even book value and extend the concession period to 1000 years urself.

Then it becomes $1.3B/1000 = to make $1.3M per year  to break even... Isn' t this a huat huat situation?

Let say  5 room  HDB flat left with 40 years selling at discount due to the shortened lease. Why not buy over it at the current  value and then extend the lease to freehold since u are the govt and then see the value of the HDB flat huat,  u are the govt, u  can do whatever u want with the lease  right?

Same goes for Tuas Spring.. no?

 
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Stephenchow
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20-Jun-2018 09:08     
 
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 Alert Admin 		Govt has the upper hand and time is on their side:-

1. They have three listed GLCs ready to run the plant if need to (Singspring is already with Keppel Infrastructure Trust)
2. They will fine you if you cannot supply water for a day
3. At 2038, you need to hand over the plant to them F.O.C
Without even need to spend a single cent and at zero risk , they get the plant from you FOC @ 2038.

1.3b (purchase cost) + 1.6b (if loss at $80m a year for the next 20 year ) = $2.9b (this is the cost that may run up to for a buyer.    This money is enough for us to buy a few squadrons of F35 fighter jets to show off to our neighbours.)  laughlaugh









   

tonylim70      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 08:44) Posted:

hahahaha... think of it... if u are the govt.. u see a distress party trying to offload Tuas Spring...

Why not buy over it at a certain discount or even book value and extend the concession period to 1000 years urself.

Then it becomes $1.3B/1000 = to make $1.3M per year  to break even... Isn' t this a huat huat situation?

Let say  5 room  HDB flat left with 40 years selling at discount due to the shortened lease. Why not buy over it at the current  value and then extend the lease to freehold since u are the govt and then see the value of the HDB flat huat,  u are the govt, u  can do whatever u want with the lease  right?

Same goes for Tuas Spring.. no?

 

investshare      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 08:25) Posted:

Must say that Singapore are very lucky ... that you are not government
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tonylim70
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20-Jun-2018 09:01     
 
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 Alert Admin 		Brother, based on ur explanation, the main factor is the 20 years concession. If the govt buy over , that means it becomes the govt asset. Then the concession period no longer applies liao.. meaning it will become concession period of infinity. Then ur calculation will become $1.3B/infinity = $???

Then the govt would be the winner in this case if they buy over tuas spring.. Correct?

Stephenchow      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 08:01) Posted:

If you' ve $1.3B, buy SG govt bond  with 20 years maturity date @ 3% interest, you will get 1.3b x 3% =$39m interest per year, safe and sound not need to worry of default
If you use $1.3B to buy a plant with 20 years concession period: 1.3B/20 = $65m , need to make $65m yearly just to break even, excluding loan interest and the chances that you may lose money at $80m a year for the next 20 years
Someone will need to wake up from David Copperfield illusion, unless you can make the plant disappear and then reappear at good time to sell for $1.3B.cheekylaugh

Anyone with right mind won' t buy
Dream on       

danger      ( Date: 19-Jun-2018 22:27) Posted:

If Tuaspring is sold at book value or higher, Hyflux would have about $900 million left after paying off secured project finance lender Maybank in full, Ms Lum said. That money could be used to settle other debt, including redeeming the preference shares and perpetual securities, she said.
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tonylim70
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20-Jun-2018 08:48     
 
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 Alert Admin 		Is like selected SER for HDB Flats.. Only " potentially viable" flats will get SER aka en-bloc.

This Tuas Spring can be " made" profitable by simply extending the lease . As the govt, u can extend the lease to infinity and that will make Tuas Spring a profitable purchase.

Loss making power plants etc.. do they have potential? Like lease which can be " manipulated" ? If yes, why not?

If not why govt SER some HDB flats? becos some HDB flats sitting on goldmine land ma.. same lo.. If the loss making power plants is sitting on goldmine land etc, why not buy over and then earn $$$?

Stephenchow      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 08:17) Posted:

Then all the loss making power plants & desalination plants will all come to the govt for rescue.
This is a private venture, they are not even a GLC

tonylim70      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 08:09) Posted:

If I am the govt, I buy over at $1.3B and extend the concession to infinity becos as the govt, I can extend the concession to as long as I desire.

So $1.3B for a plant with 99 years concession: 1.3B/99 = $13m. No need to make $65m, just make $13m to break even...

So I see it as a possible scenario where the govt will privatise Tuas Spring and then self extend the concession period or even remove the concession period since it now belongs to the govt.
 
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tonylim70
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20-Jun-2018 08:44     
 
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 Alert Admin 		hahahaha... think of it... if u are the govt.. u see a distress party trying to offload Tuas Spring...

Why not buy over it at a certain discount or even book value and extend the concession period to 1000 years urself.

Then it becomes $1.3B/1000 = to make $1.3M per year  to break even... Isn' t this a huat huat situation?

Let say  5 room  HDB flat left with 40 years selling at discount due to the shortened lease. Why not buy over it at the current  value and then extend the lease to freehold since u are the govt and then see the value of the HDB flat huat,  u are the govt, u  can do whatever u want with the lease  right?

Same goes for Tuas Spring.. no?

 

investshare      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 08:25) Posted:

Must say that Singapore are very lucky ... that you are not government.

tonylim70      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 08:09) Posted:

If I am the govt, I buy over at $1.3B and extend the concession to infinity becos as the govt, I can extend the concession to as long as I desire.

So $1.3B for a plant with 99 years concession: 1.3B/99 = $13m. No need to make $65m, just make $13m to break even...

So I see it as a possible scenario where the govt will privatise Tuas Spring and then self extend the concession period or even remove the concession period since it now belongs to the govt.
 
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investshare
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20-Jun-2018 08:25     
 
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 Alert Admin 		Must say that Singapore are very lucky ... that you are not government.

tonylim70      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 08:09) Posted:

If I am the govt, I buy over at $1.3B and extend the concession to infinity becos as the govt, I can extend the concession to as long as I desire.

So $1.3B for a plant with 99 years concession: 1.3B/99 = $13m. No need to make $65m, just make $13m to break even...

So I see it as a possible scenario where the govt will privatise Tuas Spring and then self extend the concession period or even remove the concession period since it now belongs to the govt.
 

Stephenchow      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 08:01) Posted:

If you' ve $1.3B, buy SG govt bond  with 20 years maturity date @ 3% interest, you will get 1.3b x 3% =$39m interest per year, safe and sound not need to worry of default
If you use $1.3B to buy a plant with 20 years concession period: 1.3B/20 = $65m , need to make $65m yearly just to break even, excluding loan interest and the chances that you may lose money at $80m a year for the next 20 years
Someone will need to wake up from David Copperfield illusion, unless you can make the plant disappear and then reappear at good time to sell for $1.3B.cheekylaugh

Anyone with right mind won' t buy
Dream on       
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Stephenchow
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20-Jun-2018 08:17     
 
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 Alert Admin 		Then all the loss making power plants & desalination plants will all come to the govt for rescue.
This is a private venture, they are not even a GLC

tonylim70      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 08:09) Posted:

If I am the govt, I buy over at $1.3B and extend the concession to infinity becos as the govt, I can extend the concession to as long as I desire.

So $1.3B for a plant with 99 years concession: 1.3B/99 = $13m. No need to make $65m, just make $13m to break even...

So I see it as a possible scenario where the govt will privatise Tuas Spring and then self extend the concession period or even remove the concession period since it now belongs to the govt.
 

Stephenchow      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 08:01) Posted:

If you' ve $1.3B, buy SG govt bond  with 20 years maturity date @ 3% interest, you will get 1.3b x 3% =$39m interest per year, safe and sound not need to worry of default
If you use $1.3B to buy a plant with 20 years concession period: 1.3B/20 = $65m , need to make $65m yearly just to break even, excluding loan interest and the chances that you may lose money at $80m a year for the next 20 years
Someone will need to wake up from David Copperfield illusion, unless you can make the plant disappear and then reappear at good time to sell for $1.3B.cheekylaugh

Anyone with right mind won' t buy
Dream on       
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tonylim70
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20-Jun-2018 08:09     
 
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 Alert Admin 		If I am the govt, I buy over at $1.3B and extend the concession to infinity becos as the govt, I can extend the concession to as long as I desire.

So $1.3B for a plant with 99 years concession: 1.3B/99 = $13m. No need to make $65m, just make $13m to break even...

So I see it as a possible scenario where the govt will privatise Tuas Spring and then self extend the concession period or even remove the concession period since it now belongs to the govt.
 

Stephenchow      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 08:01) Posted:

If you' ve $1.3B, buy SG govt bond  with 20 years maturity date @ 3% interest, you will get 1.3b x 3% =$39m interest per year, safe and sound not need to worry of default
If you use $1.3B to buy a plant with 20 years concession period: 1.3B/20 = $65m , need to make $65m yearly just to break even, excluding loan interest and the chances that you may lose money at $80m a year for the next 20 years
Someone will need to wake up from David Copperfield illusion, unless you can make the plant disappear and then reappear at good time to sell for $1.3B.cheekylaugh

Anyone with right mind won' t buy
Dream on       

danger      ( Date: 19-Jun-2018 22:27) Posted:

If Tuaspring is sold at book value or higher, Hyflux would have about $900 million left after paying off secured project finance lender Maybank in full, Ms Lum said. That money could be used to settle other debt, including redeeming the preference shares and perpetual securities, she said.
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tonylim70
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20-Jun-2018 08:04     
 
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 Alert Admin 		If there is someone who buy high sell low, there is someone in Singapore hahahaha.. :) U and I know who :)

Stephenchow      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 08:01) Posted:

If you' ve $1.3B, buy SG govt bond  with 20 years maturity date @ 3% interest, you will get 1.3b x 3% =$39m interest per year, safe and sound not need to worry of default
If you use $1.3B to buy a plant with 20 years concession period: 1.3B/20 = $65m , need to make $65m yearly just to break even, excluding loan interest and the chances that you may lose money at $80m a year for the next 20 years
Someone will need to wake up from David Copperfield illusion, unless you can make the plant disappear and then reappear at good time to sell for $1.3B.cheekylaugh

Anyone with right mind won' t buy
Dream on       

danger      ( Date: 19-Jun-2018 22:27) Posted:

If Tuaspring is sold at book value or higher, Hyflux would have about $900 million left after paying off secured project finance lender Maybank in full, Ms Lum said. That money could be used to settle other debt, including redeeming the preference shares and perpetual securities, she said.
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tonylim70
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20-Jun-2018 08:02     
 
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 Alert Admin 		I think she is hinting or already in negiotion with  Temasek  to privatise TUAS spring just like how they privatise SMRT and how Temasek helps to bail out Ezion, Marco Polo etc..

Anything can happen...
 

Belteshazzar      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 07:17) Posted:

When u r desperate, how to sell at book value or above????
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Stephenchow
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20-Jun-2018 08:01     
 
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 Alert Admin 		If you' ve $1.3B, buy SG govt bond  with 20 years maturity date @ 3% interest, you will get 1.3b x 3% =$39m interest per year, safe and sound not need to worry of default
If you use $1.3B to buy a plant with 20 years concession period: 1.3B/20 = $65m , need to make $65m yearly just to break even, excluding loan interest and the chances that you may lose money at $80m a year for the next 20 years
Someone will need to wake up from David Copperfield illusion, unless you can make the plant disappear and then reappear at good time to sell for $1.3B.cheekylaugh

Anyone with right mind won' t buy
Dream on       

danger      ( Date: 19-Jun-2018 22:27) Posted:

If Tuaspring is sold at book value or higher, Hyflux would have about $900 million left after paying off secured project finance lender Maybank in full, Ms Lum said. That money could be used to settle other debt, including redeeming the preference shares and perpetual securities, she said.
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enjoylife77
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20-Jun-2018 07:57     
 
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 Alert Admin 		The warnings has been on the wall for so many years yet the $900 m perp notes were over-subscribed. Amazingly shocking how easy to raise money from gullible retail investors here.
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ysh2006
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20-Jun-2018 07:54     
 
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 Alert Admin 		Let see six months later can sell or not...O $ P $...

danger      ( Date: 19-Jun-2018 22:27) Posted:

If Tuaspring is sold at book value or higher, Hyflux would have about $900 million left after paying off secured project finance lender Maybank in full, Ms Lum said. That money could be used to settle other debt, including redeeming the preference shares and perpetual securities, she said.
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Belteshazzar
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20-Jun-2018 07:17     
 
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 Alert Admin 		When u r desperate, how to sell at book value or above????
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danger
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19-Jun-2018 22:27     
 
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 Alert Admin 		If Tuaspring is sold at book value or higher, Hyflux would have about $900 million left after paying off secured project finance lender Maybank in full, Ms Lum said. That money could be used to settle other debt, including redeeming the preference shares and perpetual securities, she said.
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danger
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19-Jun-2018 22:03     
 
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 Alert Admin 		Hyflux is seeking about $200 million in rescue financing and is in preliminary talks with more than 25 interested parties, lawyers for the water and power company said on Tuesday (June 19) as the Singapore High Court gave it a six-month reprieve from creditors.

The company is also in discussion with four parties on a possible sale of its Tuaspring Integrated Water and Power Project, and Hyflux founder Olivia Lum told the court in a June 14  affidavit  that she was " confident" that improving conditions will allow the plant to be sold at or above its  $1.3 billion book value.
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ysh2006
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19-Jun-2018 21:37     
 
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 Alert Admin 		O $P $....how to run ?

guards80      ( Date: 19-Jun-2018 21:16) Posted:

Hyflux: General Announcement :: Outcome of Moratorium Applications and Updates on Reorganisation Process


http://repository.shareinvestor.com/rpt_view.pl/id/741024.1/type/sgxnet/original_filename/1
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guards80
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19-Jun-2018 21:16     
 
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 Alert Admin

Hyflux: General Announcement :: Outcome of Moratorium Applications and Updates on Reorganisation Process


http://repository.shareinvestor.com/rpt_view.pl/id/741024.1/type/sgxnet/original_filename/1
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BillionX
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19-Jun-2018 19:05     
 
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 Alert Admin 		Hyflux is Olivia?s baby so I am confident that she will do whatever it takes to ensure it?s survival.
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investshare
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19-Jun-2018 18:17     
 
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 Alert Admin 		The legal fee, advisor fee and expenses to engage creditors could easily cost $100m.
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