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Stephenchow Veteran	21-Jun-2018 18:59        Stephenchow About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Today update:- http://infopub.sgx.com/FileOpen/Hyflux%20Ltd%20-%20Announcement%20dated%2021%20June%202018.ashx?App=Announcement& FileID=511562
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Stephenchow Veteran	21-Jun-2018 17:01        Stephenchow About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Substantial holders need to pump in alot of money. If they are keen, should have done it before going to court.  The debt level is too high. The startup cost for the company is merely $20k in 1989. Do you want to lose $20k or additional $50M to $200m if you' re the owner?     Using white knight money (if any) is safer, sure bet   Belteshazzar      ( Date: 21-Jun-2018 10:55) Posted: Do a 10:1 share consolidation , then a right issue just follow noble
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Belteshazzar Master	21-Jun-2018 10:55        Belteshazzar About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Flexible   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Do a 10:1 share consolidation , then a right issue just follow noble
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investshare Supreme	21-Jun-2018 09:55        investshare About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Not that they don?t think, but they hope government to bail them out. mosaic      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 20:10) Posted: Looks like most people aren't thinking straight. The government doesn't need to rescue the company. Why waste tax payer money? Just let it go bankrupt and takeover at $1 KAMAL0883      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 11:26) Posted: govt can invest big funds in oversea companies but hardly rescue/invest in local important stretergy compaany
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mosaic Member	20-Jun-2018 20:22        mosaic About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	They were majority holder but I don't recall it being that high. It was more like 10%+ or less if you look it up properly. But yes this is probably one of the factors, plus national strategic reasons, probably more sustainable in the long run plus other factors Stephenchow      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 12:24) Posted: Temasek got no choice, because they were majority shareholder of Olam (52.5%) when muddy water attacked zillion      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 12:01) Posted: it went to ' rescue' Olam and not Noble. Both have issues with accounting. While Olam has no short muddy waters, Noble has. Olam being a homegrown company got glc to ' rescue' it fending off any shorties. There will be some ways that Hyflux being a homegrown will see some ' rescue' esp our survival (water) is at stake
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mosaic Member	20-Jun-2018 20:16        mosaic About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Don't think it's that simple. Don't think you can simply auction off the equipment if you've a running legal contract to provide services to the government/ country tonylim70      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 09:17) Posted: Wrong leh bro, first if Tuas Spring cannot hold on, then it will be liquidated and all the plants equipments will be auctioned off to pay the creditors etc.. the govt wun get it for free. 2nd, ur formula u used 1.3b/20 years ... if govt take over, it becomes 1.3b/infinity becos concession of 20 years will become infinity if govt take over. Then is different ball game liao.. 3rd. If mahathir suddenly wants to " void" the water supply contract etc, then this tuas spring will become hot leh Stephenchow      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 09:08) Posted: Govt has the upper hand and time is on their side:- 1. They have three listed GLCs ready to run the plant if need to (Singspring is already with Keppel Infrastructure Trust) 2. They will fine you if you cannot supply water for a day 3. At 2038, you need to hand over the plant to them F.O.C Without even need to spend a single cent and at zero risk , they get the plant from you FOC @ 2038. 1.3b (purchase cost) + 1.6b (if loss at $80m a year for the next 20 year ) = $2.9b (this is the cost that may run up to for a buyer.    This money is enough for us to buy a few squadrons of F35 fighter jets to show off to our neighbours.)
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mosaic Member	20-Jun-2018 20:10        mosaic About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Looks like most people aren't thinking straight. The government doesn't need to rescue the company. Why waste tax payer money? Just let it go bankrupt and takeover at $1 KAMAL0883      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 11:26) Posted: govt can invest big funds in oversea companies but hardly rescue/invest in local important stretergy compaany  Observers      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 10:52) Posted: Why is market competition important to Singapore govt? Because our cheap water contract with Malaysia will end sooner or later. When it does, Malaysia will still want to sell water to Singapore, but at what price? No one will be happy with an arbitrary figure. Thats why we must establish a market price mechanism which we can in the future negotiate with our neighbours on how to price water, whether buying it from Malaysia or selling our treated water to them. See how far sighted our govt is?
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TanWaiKeong Member	20-Jun-2018 20:09        TanWaiKeong About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Yes it should be suspended to protect market value . We are discussing on possible reciprocity from Olivia to prepare for the townhall meetings on 19 jul and 20 July Join the retail investors group for updates on hyflux if u own perpetual securities , preference shares or hyflux stock https://t.me/hyflux_retail
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BillionX Senior	20-Jun-2018 17:22        BillionX About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	6 months to come up with a viable plan.Ideally the shares should be suspended likewise.For the sake of all who have a finger in this messy pipe let?s hope Hyflux will survive this saga.🤞
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Poohbull Master	20-Jun-2018 12:34        Poohbull About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	The theory of assets light business model is bull shit. Company sell building when we all know property will rises. If hyflux never sell building, they could still save on the rental Poohbull      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 12:32) Posted: Singapore govt just care for their paycheck la. U think they care? They had privatise all state own company. We are like noble. No more asset to sell. Now we had to issue bonds to investors, just like hyflux. Just waiting if Singapore govt will default . Haha Poohbull      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 12:13) Posted: I realize most company cannot survive more than 30 years. All bankrupt.
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Poohbull Master	20-Jun-2018 12:32        Poohbull About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Singapore govt just care for their paycheck la. U think they care? They had privatise all state own company. We are like noble. No more asset to sell. Now we had to issue bonds to investors, just like hyflux. Just waiting if Singapore govt will default . Haha Poohbull      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 12:13) Posted: I realize most company cannot survive more than 30 years. All bankrupt. zillion      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 12:01) Posted: it went to ' rescue' Olam and not Noble. Both have issues with accounting. While Olam has no short muddy waters, Noble has. Olam being a homegrown company got glc to ' rescue' it fending off any shorties. There will be some ways that Hyflux being a homegrown will see some ' rescue' esp our survival (water) is at stake
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Stephenchow Veteran	20-Jun-2018 12:24        Stephenchow About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Temasek got no choice, because they were majority shareholder of Olam (52.5%) when muddy water attacked zillion      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 12:01) Posted: it went to ' rescue' Olam and not Noble. Both have issues with accounting. While Olam has no short muddy waters, Noble has. Olam being a homegrown company got glc to ' rescue' it fending off any shorties. There will be some ways that Hyflux being a homegrown will see some ' rescue' esp our survival (water) is at stake. KAMAL0883      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 11:26) Posted: govt can invest big funds in oversea companies but hardly rescue/invest in local important stretergy compaany
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Poohbull Master	20-Jun-2018 12:13        Poohbull About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	I realize most company cannot survive more than 30 years. All bankrupt. zillion      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 12:01) Posted: it went to ' rescue' Olam and not Noble. Both have issues with accounting. While Olam has no short muddy waters, Noble has. Olam being a homegrown company got glc to ' rescue' it fending off any shorties. There will be some ways that Hyflux being a homegrown will see some ' rescue' esp our survival (water) is at stake. KAMAL0883      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 11:26) Posted: govt can invest big funds in oversea companies but hardly rescue/invest in local important stretergy compaany
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zillion Master	20-Jun-2018 12:01        zillion About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	it went to ' rescue' Olam and not Noble. Both have issues with accounting. While Olam has no short muddy waters, Noble has. Olam being a homegrown company got glc to ' rescue' it fending off any shorties. There will be some ways that Hyflux being a homegrown will see some ' rescue' esp our survival (water) is at stake. KAMAL0883      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 11:26) Posted: govt can invest big funds in oversea companies but hardly rescue/invest in local important stretergy compaany  Observers      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 10:52) Posted: Why is market competition important to Singapore govt? Because our cheap water contract with Malaysia will end sooner or later. When it does, Malaysia will still want to sell water to Singapore, but at what price? No one will be happy with an arbitrary figure. Thats why we must establish a market price mechanism which we can in the future negotiate with our neighbours on how to price water, whether buying it from Malaysia or selling our treated water to them. See how far sighted our govt is?
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investshare Supreme	20-Jun-2018 12:00        investshare About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Might as well ask government can spent $20m for Trump-Kim meeting, but not free lunch for you. KAMAL0883      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 11:26) Posted: govt can invest big funds in oversea companies but hardly rescue/invest in local important stretergy compaany  Observers      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 10:52) Posted: Why is market competition important to Singapore govt? Because our cheap water contract with Malaysia will end sooner or later. When it does, Malaysia will still want to sell water to Singapore, but at what price? No one will be happy with an arbitrary figure. Thats why we must establish a market price mechanism which we can in the future negotiate with our neighbours on how to price water, whether buying it from Malaysia or selling our treated water to them. See how far sighted our govt is?
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KAMAL0883 Supreme	20-Jun-2018 11:26        KAMAL0883 About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Flexible   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	govt can invest big funds in oversea companies but hardly rescue/invest in local important stretergy compaany  Observers      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 10:52) Posted: Why is market competition important to Singapore govt? Because our cheap water contract with Malaysia will end sooner or later. When it does, Malaysia will still want to sell water to Singapore, but at what price? No one will be happy with an arbitrary figure. Thats why we must establish a market price mechanism which we can in the future negotiate with our neighbours on how to price water, whether buying it from Malaysia or selling our treated water to them. See how far sighted our govt is?
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Observers Elite	20-Jun-2018 10:52        Observers About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Why is market competition important to Singapore govt? Because our cheap water contract with Malaysia will end sooner or later. When it does, Malaysia will still want to sell water to Singapore, but at what price? No one will be happy with an arbitrary figure. Thats why we must establish a market price mechanism which we can in the future negotiate with our neighbours on how to price water, whether buying it from Malaysia or selling our treated water to them. See how far sighted our govt is?
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Observers Elite	20-Jun-2018 10:46        Observers About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	I think  govt want to promote market competition for water and power to drive innovation and efficiency. Even if govt comes in, it probably will be at market consideration and by a GLC linked to Temasek, say Keppel or Sembcorp. I don' t think either shareholders of these 2 companies want to bailout Hyflux shareholders/bondholders. tonylim70      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 08:44) Posted: hahahaha... think of it... if u are the govt.. u see a distress party trying to offload Tuas Spring... Why not buy over it at a certain discount or even book value and extend the concession period to 1000 years urself. Then it becomes $1.3B/1000 = to make $1.3M per year  to break even... Isn' t this a huat huat situation? Let say  5 room  HDB flat left with 40 years selling at discount due to the shortened lease. Why not buy over it at the current  value and then extend the lease to freehold since u are the govt and then see the value of the HDB flat huat,  u are the govt, u  can do whatever u want with the lease  right? Same goes for Tuas Spring.. no?   investshare      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 08:25) Posted: Must say that Singapore are very lucky ... that you are not government
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Observers Elite	20-Jun-2018 10:42        Observers About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Creditors will auction, but who ever buys it will have to run the plant to govt spec or face penalties. I won' t be surprised if in the highly unlikely event that Mahathir voids the federal contract, JB state govt still continues to sell us water,  at a price discounted to that produced at our local desalination plants. Got money don' t want to make? Impossible with the govt they have. tonylim70      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 09:17) Posted: Wrong leh bro, first if Tuas Spring cannot hold on, then it will be liquidated and all the plants equipments will be auctioned off to pay the creditors etc.. the govt wun get it for free. 2nd, ur formula u used 1.3b/20 years ... if govt take over, it becomes 1.3b/infinity becos concession of 20 years will become infinity if govt take over. Then is different ball game liao.. 3rd. If mahathir suddenly wants to " void" the water supply contract etc, then this tuas spring will become hot leh Stephenchow      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 09:08) Posted: Govt has the upper hand and time is on their side:- 1. They have three listed GLCs ready to run the plant if need to (Singspring is already with Keppel Infrastructure Trust) 2. They will fine you if you cannot supply water for a day 3. At 2038, you need to hand over the plant to them F.O.C Without even need to spend a single cent and at zero risk , they get the plant from you FOC @ 2038. 1.3b (purchase cost) + 1.6b (if loss at $80m a year for the next 20 year ) = $2.9b (this is the cost that may run up to for a buyer.    This money is enough for us to buy a few squadrons of F35 fighter jets to show off to our neighbours.)
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lionhill Veteran	20-Jun-2018 09:32        lionhill About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Tuas Spring will receive PUB concession every year until 2038. According to Olivia Lum' s statement, the USEP price of about $110/MW  can cover the operating cost. For Hyflux, the killer is that her financial cost is very high. For cash rich companies, if the electricity oversupply can be eased soon, it will be stable passive income source. Stephenchow      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 09:08) Posted: Govt has the upper hand and time is on their side:- 1. They have three listed GLCs ready to run the plant if need to (Singspring is already with Keppel Infrastructure Trust) 2. They will fine you if you cannot supply water for a day 3. At 2038, you need to hand over the plant to them F.O.C Without even need to spend a single cent and at zero risk , they get the plant from you FOC @ 2038. 1.3b (purchase cost) + 1.6b (if loss at $80m a year for the next 20 year ) = $2.9b (this is the cost that may run up to for a buyer.    This money is enough for us to buy a few squadrons of F35 fighter jets to show off to our neighbours.)      tonylim70      ( Date: 20-Jun-2018 08:44) Posted: hahahaha... think of it... if u are the govt.. u see a distress party trying to offload Tuas Spring... Why not buy over it at a certain discount or even book value and extend the concession period to 1000 years urself. Then it becomes $1.3B/1000 = to make $1.3M per year  to break even... Isn' t this a huat huat situation? Let say  5 room  HDB flat left with 40 years selling at discount due to the shortened lease. Why not buy over it at the current  value and then extend the lease to freehold since u are the govt and then see the value of the HDB flat huat,  u are the govt, u  can do whatever u want with the lease  right? Same goes for Tuas Spring.. no?
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