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MetalTrader3 Supreme	09-Nov-2014 23:14        MetalTrader3 About Contact  Quote this Post!   Yells: "Let Your Ignorance Be Shown Tommorrow! ~ PredictorX"
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Financial Accounting is really fascinating. Reading skill is very important. Maybe the course never teach haha. Property, Plant & Equipment: USD 6,097,508,000 Non-current liability is a liability not due to be paid within 12 months during the normal course of business. Non-current liabilities are also called long-term liabilities. In accounting, non-current liabilities are shown on the right wing of the balance sheet representing the sources of funds, which are "generally bounded in form of capital assets". www.readyratios.com/reference/accounting/non_current_liabilities.htm Kyoto2008      ( Date: 09-Nov-2014 23:04) Posted: Says who? Of course we care about the total debts the company has.  What kind of logic is this?  You mean you take on long term debt and it is not important to your spouse or your family members?    You need to pay interest for the debt.  And the lender may also take back your loan.        If you can' t pay you go bankrupt! Where did you get this logic that long term debt is not important?      earlybird14      ( Date: 09-Nov-2014 22:56) Posted: Partially agreed. But in stock market, nobody will care what is going to happen more than 1 year time. Non current borrowing are secured loan with fixed interest rate.
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Kyoto2008 Elite	09-Nov-2014 23:12        Kyoto2008 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Whether it' s stock market or any situation, if you borrow and continue to do so, the company will be bankrupted sooner or later. What NOL did was to sell the building first, now they are thinking of selling APL to pay the debts.  They are trying to stay alive, but the debt is extremely high.        Next thing they can do is to call for a rights issue.  And then the price will really plunge. Kyoto2008      ( Date: 09-Nov-2014 23:04) Posted: Says who? Of course we care about the total debts the company has.  What kind of logic is this?  You mean you take on long term debt and it is not important to your spouse or your family members?    You need to pay interest for the debt.  And the lender may also take back your loan.        If you can' t pay you go bankrupt! Where did you get this logic that long term debt is not important?      earlybird14      ( Date: 09-Nov-2014 22:56) Posted: Partially agreed. But in stock market, nobody will care what is going to happen more than 1 year time. Non current borrowing are secured loan with fixed interest rate.
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nqing87 Supreme	09-Nov-2014 23:12        nqing87 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	yea, ppl still care about debt.. otherwise counters like vallianz would have shoot up much higher already, since earnings are expected to grow significantly from their current order book.. Kyoto2008      ( Date: 09-Nov-2014 23:04) Posted: Says who? Of course we care about the total debts the company has.  What kind of logic is this?  You mean you take on long term debt and it is not important to your spouse or your family members?    You need to pay interest for the debt.  And the lender may also take back your loan.        If you can' t pay you go bankrupt! Where did you get this logic that long term debt is not important?      earlybird14      ( Date: 09-Nov-2014 22:56) Posted: Partially agreed. But in stock market, nobody will care what is going to happen more than 1 year time. Non current borrowing are secured loan with fixed interest rate.
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Kyoto2008 Elite	09-Nov-2014 23:04        Kyoto2008 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Says who? Of course we care about the total debts the company has.  What kind of logic is this?  You mean you take on long term debt and it is not important to your spouse or your family members?    You need to pay interest for the debt.  And the lender may also take back your loan.        If you can' t pay you go bankrupt! Where did you get this logic that long term debt is not important?      earlybird14      ( Date: 09-Nov-2014 22:56) Posted: Partially agreed. But in stock market, nobody will care what is going to happen more than 1 year time. Non current borrowing are secured loan with fixed interest rate. Kyoto2008      ( Date: 09-Nov-2014 22:41) Posted: Nope,  you definitely have it wrong. Ppl are now  focusing on long term debt now, because interest rates to service these debts are going up.      You only worry about current liabilities when your current assets are relatively lower, it is called working capital which must be positive or the company immediately goes bankrupt.
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earlybird14 Supreme	09-Nov-2014 22:56        earlybird14 About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Combined   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Partially agreed. But in stock market, nobody will care what is going to happen more than 1 year time. Non current borrowing are secured loan with fixed interest rate. Kyoto2008      ( Date: 09-Nov-2014 22:41) Posted: Nope,  you definitely have it wrong. Ppl are now  focusing on long term debt now, because interest rates to service these debts are going up.      You only worry about current liabilities when your current assets are relatively lower, it is called working capital which must be positive or the company immediately goes bankrupt.   earlybird14      ( Date: 09-Nov-2014 22:28) Posted: Nobody will focus on non current borrowing. Instead current borrowing and current liability are the focus. Sell apl logistic to pay and keep the operation running and expect market turn
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Kyoto2008 Elite	09-Nov-2014 22:52        Kyoto2008 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	I am talking to a fooll.  Goodnight. MetalTrader3      ( Date: 09-Nov-2014 22:49) Posted: Even if you read & memorize the full book of accounting, you are still a "Smart Alex" in trading realm. Trading see the ability to pay off debt in relative to its assets. Many had tried, but none had succeeded. You are welcome to test your financial vs trading realm :) In Vallianz, I said before. Now, I say again. Kyoto2008      ( Date: 09-Nov-2014 22:26) Posted: I suggest you take a course on financial accounting  before you start making misleading  statements. I' m sorry I have to use some strong words. People here use their hard earned savings to invest in stocks, and they deserve some accuracy  and standard in interpretation of numbers. If the debt is US$4.2bln, don' t try to use other figures taken from somewhere to  make it seem smaller, to me it is deceitful and I can' t stand for it. I can tahan fools and scoffers, but I cannot stand dishonest ppl.
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Kyoto2008 Elite	09-Nov-2014 22:50        Kyoto2008 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Not necessary.    A loan can be unsecured.  The assets you talk about, how do you know they can sell for the value stated?  When they lelong the ships, do you think they will sell for full value as stated in the books?    They may not even get half the value. Saw the Edge magazine?  It said DBS went to lelong some Sentosa cove properties for half the price they were bought.      The debts  are there and it costs money to finance it.    In the past, interest is low, but now it is increasing.   The  US$4.2bln   debt is as at 2013,  you see every year this debt increases.      When you buy a company and you see a huge pile of long term debt, would you say you won' t " focus" on the debt and just buy the company because you think it will start making money (when it has been making losses year after year).    You take over the losses, and you take over the debt.      Debt has to be paid, before you buy over the company, they will bankrupt the company.  After you bought over and cannot pay the debt, they bankrupt you.    So debt is not important?      Are you ok?    MetalTrader3      ( Date: 09-Nov-2014 22:30) Posted: It is considered non current liability which can be paid through its capital assets. In financial statement, it is long term debt. But, it will & must be repaid, thus it is bounded to its capital assets. Kyoto2008      ( Date: 09-Nov-2014 22:14) Posted: Are you saying the US$4.2bln is not a debt?
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MetalTrader3 Supreme	09-Nov-2014 22:49        MetalTrader3 About Contact  Quote this Post!   Yells: "Let Your Ignorance Be Shown Tommorrow! ~ PredictorX"
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Even if you read & memorize the full book of accounting, you are still a "Smart Alex" in trading realm. Trading see the ability to pay off debt in relative to its assets. Many had tried, but none had succeeded. You are welcome to test your financial vs trading realm :) In Vallianz, I said before. Now, I say again. Kyoto2008      ( Date: 09-Nov-2014 22:26) Posted: I suggest you take a course on financial accounting  before you start making misleading  statements. I' m sorry I have to use some strong words. People here use their hard earned savings to invest in stocks, and they deserve some accuracy  and standard in interpretation of numbers. If the debt is US$4.2bln, don' t try to use other figures taken from somewhere to  make it seem smaller, to me it is deceitful and I can' t stand for it. I can tahan fools and scoffers, but I cannot stand dishonest ppl.   MetalTrader3      ( Date: 09-Nov-2014 22:11) Posted: Property, Plant & Equipment: USD 6,097,508,000 Non-current liability is a liability not due to be paid within 12 months during the normal course of business. Non-current liabilities are also called long-term liabilities. In accounting, non-current liabilities are shown on the right wing of the balance sheet representing the sources of funds, which are "generally bounded in form of capital assets". www.readyratios.com/reference/accounting/non_current_liabilities.htm
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Kyoto2008 Elite	09-Nov-2014 22:41        Kyoto2008 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Nope,  you definitely have it wrong. Ppl are now  focusing on long term debt now, because interest rates to service these debts are going up.      You only worry about current liabilities when your current assets are relatively lower, it is called working capital which must be positive or the company immediately goes bankrupt.   earlybird14      ( Date: 09-Nov-2014 22:28) Posted: Nobody will focus on non current borrowing. Instead current borrowing and current liability are the focus. Sell apl logistic to pay and keep the operation running and expect market turn Kyoto2008      ( Date: 09-Nov-2014 22:14) Posted: Are you saying the US$4.2bln is not a debt?
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MetalTrader3 Supreme	09-Nov-2014 22:30        MetalTrader3 About Contact  Quote this Post!   Yells: "Let Your Ignorance Be Shown Tommorrow! ~ PredictorX"
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	It is considered non current liability which can be paid through its capital assets. In financial statement, it is long term debt. But, it will & must be repaid, thus it is bounded to its capital assets. Kyoto2008      ( Date: 09-Nov-2014 22:14) Posted: Are you saying the US$4.2bln is not a debt? MetalTrader3      ( Date: 09-Nov-2014 22:11) Posted: Property, Plant & Equipment: USD 6,097,508,000 Non-current liability is a liability not due to be paid within 12 months during the normal course of business. Non-current liabilities are also called long-term liabilities. In accounting, non-current liabilities are shown on the right wing of the balance sheet representing the sources of funds, which are "generally bounded in form of capital assets". www.readyratios.com/reference/accounting/non_current_liabilities.htm
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earlybird14 Supreme	09-Nov-2014 22:28        earlybird14 About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Combined   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Nobody will focus on non current borrowing. Instead current borrowing and current liability are the focus. Sell apl logistic to pay and keep the operation running and expect market turn Kyoto2008      ( Date: 09-Nov-2014 22:14) Posted: Are you saying the US$4.2bln is not a debt? MetalTrader3      ( Date: 09-Nov-2014 22:11) Posted: Property, Plant & Equipment: USD 6,097,508,000 Non-current liability is a liability not due to be paid within 12 months during the normal course of business. Non-current liabilities are also called long-term liabilities. In accounting, non-current liabilities are shown on the right wing of the balance sheet representing the sources of funds, which are "generally bounded in form of capital assets". www.readyratios.com/reference/accounting/non_current_liabilities.htm
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Kyoto2008 Elite	09-Nov-2014 22:26        Kyoto2008 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 1   x 0  Alert Admin	I suggest you take a course on financial accounting  before you start making misleading  statements. I' m sorry I have to use some strong words. People here use their hard earned savings to invest in stocks, and they deserve some accuracy  and standard in interpretation of numbers. If the debt is US$4.2bln, don' t try to use other figures taken from somewhere to  make it seem smaller, to me it is deceitful and I can' t stand for it. I can tahan fools and scoffers, but I cannot stand dishonest ppl.   MetalTrader3      ( Date: 09-Nov-2014 22:11) Posted: Property, Plant & Equipment: USD 6,097,508,000 Non-current liability is a liability not due to be paid within 12 months during the normal course of business. Non-current liabilities are also called long-term liabilities. In accounting, non-current liabilities are shown on the right wing of the balance sheet representing the sources of funds, which are "generally bounded in form of capital assets". www.readyratios.com/reference/accounting/non_current_liabilities.html Kyoto2008      ( Date: 09-Nov-2014 21:49) Posted: LT term debt in NOL is $4.266,827,000 (US$4.2bln).  This is from the SGX filings.      There are conmen all around us.    Be careful.
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Kyoto2008 Elite	09-Nov-2014 22:19        Kyoto2008 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Maybe I am wrong.  There is no conman. It' s just a fool who doesn' t understand financials.  In that case, I revert to Proverbs, silence is golden to fools and scoffers. Kyoto2008      ( Date: 09-Nov-2014 22:14) Posted: Are you saying the US$4.2bln is not a debt? MetalTrader3      ( Date: 09-Nov-2014 22:11) Posted: Property, Plant & Equipment: USD 6,097,508,000 Non-current liability is a liability not due to be paid within 12 months during the normal course of business. Non-current liabilities are also called long-term liabilities. In accounting, non-current liabilities are shown on the right wing of the balance sheet representing the sources of funds, which are "generally bounded in form of capital assets". www.readyratios.com/reference/accounting/non_current_liabilities.htm
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Kyoto2008 Elite	09-Nov-2014 22:14        Kyoto2008 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Are you saying the US$4.2bln is not a debt? MetalTrader3      ( Date: 09-Nov-2014 22:11) Posted: Property, Plant & Equipment: USD 6,097,508,000 Non-current liability is a liability not due to be paid within 12 months during the normal course of business. Non-current liabilities are also called long-term liabilities. In accounting, non-current liabilities are shown on the right wing of the balance sheet representing the sources of funds, which are "generally bounded in form of capital assets". www.readyratios.com/reference/accounting/non_current_liabilities.html Kyoto2008      ( Date: 09-Nov-2014 21:49) Posted: LT term debt in NOL is $4.266,827,000 (US$4.2bln).  This is from the SGX filings.      There are conmen all around us.    Be careful.
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MetalTrader3 Supreme	09-Nov-2014 22:11        MetalTrader3 About Contact  Quote this Post!   Yells: "Let Your Ignorance Be Shown Tommorrow! ~ PredictorX"
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Property, Plant & Equipment: USD 6,097,508,000 Non-current liability is a liability not due to be paid within 12 months during the normal course of business. Non-current liabilities are also called long-term liabilities. In accounting, non-current liabilities are shown on the right wing of the balance sheet representing the sources of funds, which are "generally bounded in form of capital assets". www.readyratios.com/reference/accounting/non_current_liabilities.html Kyoto2008      ( Date: 09-Nov-2014 21:49) Posted: LT term debt in NOL is $4.266,827,000 (US$4.2bln).  This is from the SGX filings.      There are conmen all around us.    Be careful.
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Kyoto2008 Elite	09-Nov-2014 22:00        Kyoto2008 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Conman, plse state your case. In one sentence.        I am not in the mood to go on a debate with you, knowing who you are. Kyoto2008      ( Date: 09-Nov-2014 21:58) Posted: This would exclude the $168mln NOL lost year to date.    As the financials are for year end 2013. Every year the debt balloons up, even after they sold the NOL bldg, situation did not change.    Kyoto2008      ( Date: 09-Nov-2014 21:49) Posted: LT term debt in NOL is $4.266,827,000 (US$4.2bln).  This is from the SGX filings.      There are conmen all around us.    Be careful.
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Kyoto2008 Elite	09-Nov-2014 21:58        Kyoto2008 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	This would exclude the $168mln NOL lost year to date.    As the financials are for year end 2013. Every year the debt balloons up, even after they sold the NOL bldg, situation did not change.    Kyoto2008      ( Date: 09-Nov-2014 21:49) Posted: LT term debt in NOL is $4.266,827,000 (US$4.2bln).  This is from the SGX filings.      There are conmen all around us.    Be careful.
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Kyoto2008 Elite	09-Nov-2014 21:49        Kyoto2008 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	LT term debt in NOL is $4.266,827,000 (US$4.2bln).  This is from the SGX filings.      There are conmen all around us.    Be careful.
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MetalTrader3 Supreme	09-Nov-2014 21:38        MetalTrader3 About Contact  Quote this Post!   Yells: "Let Your Ignorance Be Shown Tommorrow! ~ PredictorX"
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Strategy (either#1 or 2), Tips, &Solution for NOL Management (All need follow to turn profitable): My advise (Superior Strategy #1): - Sell entire APL (Shipping) to different buyers. - Retain APL (Terminal & Logistics) This strategy will generate positive profits in hundred of millions b4 tax per quarter instantly. As only most profitable business are retained. My Advise (Superior Strategy #2): - Sell half of APL (Shipping) to manage undercapacity Liner Operation. This will improve liner revenue & having lesser scale of vessels & operating costs to maintain. - Issue APL (Logistics) as IPO to retain overall control. Sell 40% of APL Logistics shares to buyer, retain 60%. Work with buyers to expand network & business. These need to be operated simultaneously to turn profitable. Tips for NOL Management: - Your freight pricing department should be sacked: Your freight rate priced few hundred above HPL, OOCL, Maersk Line for many of regions. That is why customers used other carrier instead, resulting in slots not filled in NOL. - Your previous director ordered too many new vessels amounting to 2 billions that results in subsequent years losses. This resulted in undercapacity. Solution: - Pls work to make your freight rate as competitive as Hapad Lloyd. - Pls lease more new vessels to Maersk & sell more old vessels away as you don't need so much vessels
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MetalTrader3 Supreme	09-Nov-2014 21:19        MetalTrader3 About Contact  Quote this Post!   Yells: "Let Your Ignorance Be Shown Tommorrow! ~ PredictorX"
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	In November 2013, I posted strategy for F&N, it heeds within 2 weeks & greatly increased its combined value by January 2014 ipo listing. This time it will be up to NOL Management turn to heed my advice or not.
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