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Operator81 Senior	10-Mar-2019 09:51        Operator81 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Even blue chip investment can go wrong. What is important is to adopt an active investing aporoach and periodically review of your portfolio. If you cannot do that, my advice is to stay away from the market. Stephenchow      ( Date: 10-Mar-2019 07:45) Posted: Not to thuis extent, you should invest in blue chip, less likely to have this kind of issue. simplesimon      ( Date: 09-Mar-2019 23:30) Posted: Looks like spore stock market is full of bobby traps! So will stop investing in spore stock market!
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investshare Supreme	10-Mar-2019 08:15        investshare About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Hyflux case can?t be called a trap, it is so transparent. No bait at all. Chinese calls this 姜 太 公 钓 鱼 愿 者 上 钩 。 Translate mean Uncle Gin fishing with no bait, whoever volunteer come and hooked. simplesimon      ( Date: 09-Mar-2019 23:30) Posted: Looks like spore stock market is full of bobby traps! So will stop investing in spore stock market!
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Stephenchow Veteran	10-Mar-2019 07:45        Stephenchow About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Not to thuis extent, you should invest in blue chip, less likely to have this kind of issue. simplesimon      ( Date: 09-Mar-2019 23:30) Posted: Looks like spore stock market is full of bobby traps! So will stop investing in spore stock market!
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simplesimon Member	09-Mar-2019 23:30        simplesimon About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Looks like spore stock market is full of bobby traps! So will stop investing in spore stock market!
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Starship Supreme	09-Mar-2019 23:01        Starship About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	investshare      ( Date: 09-Mar-2019 20:04) Posted: So you see, Hyflux problem were well known, they didn?t try to hide, the problem were laid out transparently to everyone. If investors still want to take risk, and now still want to blame sgx, pap, pub?
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fundamentalhero Veteran	09-Mar-2019 22:29        fundamentalhero About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Fundamental   Yells: "I NEED HONEYS AND MONIES"
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	which was why i said hyflux is more similar to CAO than midas. afterall, midas is a fraud case outright with crime involved hyflux and cao is just " intended" mismanagement. a hybrid of the two scenario will be yamada green resources, [fraud + " intended" mismanagement] on the other hand, there can be example of those like " courts asia" where buyout is being artificially depressed (there are many others of such example which i can list a few too but list is too long) lost a lot of money even now learning these. basically from the very seniors of these forummers, our mickey mouse exchange is dead.
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runaway Senior	09-Mar-2019 21:27        runaway About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Blame this, blame that except yourselves? There is this Chinese saying : 冰 冻 三 尺 ， 非 一 日 之 寒 . (The snow is 3 ft deep, but it did not happen overnight). Huflux was above $1.00 before 2015. It took Hyflux more than 3 years to drop from above $1.00 to where it is today. It did not happen overnight. Who is to blame if you did nothing all these years?
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investshare Supreme	09-Mar-2019 20:04        investshare About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	So you see, Hyflux problem were well known, they didn?t try to hide, the problem were laid out transparently to everyone. If investors still want to take risk, and now still want to blame sgx, pap, pub?
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investshare Supreme	09-Mar-2019 19:50        investshare About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Another report in 2016...Cannot understand why got ppl call this a blue chip or fundamental strong company??? https://seekingalpha.com/instablog/46003226-mch-capital/4913450-hyflux-another-distressed-singapore-company Hyflux: Another Distressed Singapore Company? Sep. 1, 2016 12:49 PM However, if we examine the company's cash flow statement, Hyflux has never recorded a single period of positive cash flow from operations (total cash used in operations of S$1.17 billion in 6.5 years, for an average of S$180 million per year).
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investshare Supreme	09-Mar-2019 19:40        investshare About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Unfortunately there is search function for this forum so I couldn?t search my posting. But the problem was widely discussed, and I could find you one example here. http://www.probutterfly.com/blog/hyflux-s-worrying-cash-flow-situation bikerlover      ( Date: 09-Mar-2019 18:37) Posted: Can you post here and highlight the negative cash flow section for us to have a good look.  Thanks! investshare      ( Date: 09-Mar-2019 09:28) Posted: I was hit by CAO fraud last time, it was totally concealed from the book. But Hyflux and Midas, if you really look at fundamental, you would not touch. Many people invest with the mindset of MLM, don?t care about the fundamentals, as long as can get out before others means can invest. Come on, look at Hyflux cash flow past 5 years, why invest? I still remember in this thread 3-4 years ago, some forummer even find excuses and justify for the management, saying high debt is ok because they have many projects.
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bikerlover Member	09-Mar-2019 18:37        bikerlover About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Fundamental   Mood: Yells: "Good luck to your investing!!"
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Can you post here and highlight the negative cash flow section for us to have a good look.  Thanks! investshare      ( Date: 09-Mar-2019 09:28) Posted: I was hit by CAO fraud last time, it was totally concealed from the book. But Hyflux and Midas, if you really look at fundamental, you would not touch. Many people invest with the mindset of MLM, don?t care about the fundamentals, as long as can get out before others means can invest. Come on, look at Hyflux cash flow past 5 years, why invest? I still remember in this thread 3-4 years ago, some forummer even find excuses and justify for the management, saying high debt is ok because they have many projects.
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fundamentalhero Veteran	09-Mar-2019 12:13        fundamentalhero About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Fundamental   Yells: "I NEED HONEYS AND MONIES"
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	will have to disagree. you are talking with 20/20 perfect hindsight vision. if you dissect it clearly, midas is pure fraudulent from purchase of dlhc and various " transfers and misappropriation of monies" coupled with murky intent of forced seizure of core assets (32.5% of nprt) by pegged to loans from mother company through china' s foul play. conversely, CAO is just mismanagement. [both have good fundamentals in this aspect] with great projects and etc. in fact, CAO is much more similar to hyflux than midas. as midas is a pure fraud case while CAO and hyflux is more of what i see as " intended" mismanagement as more news are being uncovered on the hindsight. [e.g. project cycle, project type, cashflow cycle.] frankly, midas has more fundamentals prior to the fraud, so yeah, will have to disagree with your statement. however, am happy you recovered from CAO as CAO comes back :) investshare      ( Date: 09-Mar-2019 09:28) Posted: I was hit by CAO fraud last time, it was totally concealed from the book. But Hyflux and Midas, if you really look at fundamental, you would not touch. Many people invest with the mindset of MLM, don?t care about the fundamentals, as long as can get out before others means can invest. Come on, look at Hyflux cash flow past 5 years, why invest? I still remember in this thread 3-4 years ago, some forummer even find excuses and justify for the management, saying high debt is ok because they have many projects.
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investshare Supreme	09-Mar-2019 09:28        investshare About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	I was hit by CAO fraud last time, it was totally concealed from the book. But Hyflux and Midas, if you really look at fundamental, you would not touch. Many people invest with the mindset of MLM, don?t care about the fundamentals, as long as can get out before others means can invest. Come on, look at Hyflux cash flow past 5 years, why invest? I still remember in this thread 3-4 years ago, some forummer even find excuses and justify for the management, saying high debt is ok because they have many projects.
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fundamentalhero Veteran	09-Mar-2019 01:12        fundamentalhero About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Fundamental   Yells: "I NEED HONEYS AND MONIES"
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	please. one is con by china conmen and our said government and its agencies is doing nothing visibly constructive in apprehending or recovering the misappropriated assets while these conmen run away and spend the hard earned singaporean monies. the other is obviously a set up con job in the greater scheme of things, by own *you know who* [especially when there were so many news and rah rah from investments and accreditation *you know who la*.] However, the feeling is in its entirety, different. a simpler and more crude example to put it will be* the former is as though being raped in own country by foreign people and the policktic ocifer turn blind eye. the latter is as though our own policktic ocifers are raping you and you know who but cannot do anything about it. one may same crime. same same kena rape. but nope it' s different. to quote some of those heartless people, who were laughing at those of us who entrusted our trust on the audits, governance and greater faith in our financial system along with hopes of betterment of the society, but ended up being ultimately betrayed by it: " from the way things are now ,it seems just lying down and geting raped by your own " polick ocifers" while enjoying the process seems like not a bad plan."       besides, from the initial restructuring plan it is straight off the bat fishy. lol. now as more news comes in. fishy-ier. you still can trust your own " policktic ocifer" ? bring some popcorn and see how they explain their way when due to debts levles and non-compliant contractual terms, restructuring is off, confiscation. Hyflux: 73 parties file proofs of claims worth S$3.51b https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/companies-markets/hyflux-73-parties-file-proofs-of-claims-worth-s351b?utm_source=emarsys& utm_medium=email& utm_campaign=BT_Newsletter_Debrief& utm_term=Hyflux%3A+73+parties+file+proofs+of+claims+worth+S%243.51b+& utm_content=08%2F03%2F2019 maybe just treating it like contributing way more taxes for all citizens is also a consolatory benefit. " midas on the other hand didn' t contribute to anyone except crooks, conmen and robbers which seemingly close to 2 years now, there seems to be no constructive actions [2018-2019]"       anyway in the end the bigger scheme of things (Open market electricity, carbon tax) just seems like all our fellow citizens are being raped in the long scheme of things to come. albeit from gentle to hardcore. [imagine super huge increases in tariffs on already high rates for electricity, when the proportionate decrease in oil did not account for the near comparison of decrease in eletricity prices and in fact ended up higher, so to condition brainless sheeps [everyone who is either oblivious, blind, brain-washed or elites] to be " used" to this pricing in order to price in higher prices of electricity in future"       just sad at how far we have fallen sapping off the blood of the people.   2013 penny stock crash: Goh to plead guilty on Mar 20 https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/companies-markets/2013-penny-stock-crash-goh-to-plead-guilty-on-mar-20?utm_source=emarsys& utm_medium=email& utm_campaign=BT_Newsletter_Debrief& utm_term=2013+penny+stock+crash%3A+Goh+to+plead+guilty+on+Mar+20& utm_content=08%2F03%2F2019 MichaelSchenker      ( Date: 08-Mar-2019 15:11) Posted: Hyflux and Midas holders should go hug and console each other. Just like another Ponzi scheme exposed. Final nail? Which counter next?
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Stephenchow Veteran	08-Mar-2019 20:56        Stephenchow About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	HYFLUX is making a tweak to its restructuring scheme that will allow  retail perpetual and preference shareholders to ride more upside in the recapitalised water treatment firm. This comes after unhappy perp and pref holders, represented by the  Securities Investors Association (Singapore) or Sias, complained that they are not agreeable to the " paltry" recovery rate of 10.7 per cent on their original investment that Hyflux needs them to accept in order to return to solvency.  In comparison,  Hyflux' s senior unsecured creditors, namely medium-term noteholders, unsecured banks and contingent claimants, are promised a minimum recovery rate of 24.5 per cent under the same scheme. This second group gets to ride more upside because if none of the contingent claims are crystallised, 80 per cent of their proportionate compensation (which will be held in escrow) would have been distributed to noteholders and banks. The remaining 20 per cent would have been distributed to the managers of the projects for which the contingent claims were extinguished as " management payouts" , according to  Hyflux' s Feb 15 court affidavit.Sias president David Gerald argued  last Friday: " While we understand that perp and pref holders stand to receive nothing in a liquidation scenario, they require a more equitable distribution... At a very minimum, any returns over and above the projected liquidation recovery of 8.7 per cent to the unsecured claims should be proportionately distributed among the unsecured claims and the perp and pref holders." Hyflux said on Friday that it had communicated the Sias proposal to its senior unsecured lenders. " Having carefully considered both your letter and their response, we propose making amendments to the Hyflux scheme which will provide for the (perp and pref holders) to share... the upside from contingent liabilities extinguishing or expiring," Hyflux said. With the changes in place,  senior unsecured creditors will still receive a minimum of 24.5 per cent recovery on their principal.  The difference now is that the management payout will be reduced from 20 per cent to 10 per cent of the cash allocated to any contingent claims that are  extinguished. Hyflux confirmed that no member of the present board or senior management will receive any part of the contingent claim management payouts. " All of these amounts will only be distributed to the project staff responsible for the extinguishment of the contingent claims," Hyflux said. This is to incentivise project managers to complete projects on time so that more claims will not be called. Perp and pref holders will also receive a pro rata share of the remaining 90 per cent of the cash (but not equity) allocated to any contingent claims  that are  extinguished. Hyflux said: " This means that when contingent claims under the scheme extinguish over the next two years, 90 per cent (up from 80 per cent) of the cash allocated to those extinguished contingent claims will be distributed among both the (perp and pref holders and senior unsecured creditors), rather than just being distributed among the (senior unsecured creditors)." Hyflux has accounted for S$678 million worth of contingent claims in its proposed scheme. Under the scheme, S$93 million in cash and 10.87 per cent of the assumed S$667 million equity value of the recapitalised Hyflux (which works out to an implied equity value of S$72.5 million) will be set aside for contingent claims.
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Observers Elite	08-Mar-2019 17:20        Observers About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	How many days never rain already. Even the grass patch at a nearby park connector had turned brown. I think PUB has to step in sooner than later if this dry season keeps up. bicycle      ( Date: 07-Mar-2019 20:38) Posted: According to Hyflux' s affidavit, PUB may terminate the water purchase agreement and exercise its step-in rights to take over TS. In that event, Hyflux would have little to no value to extract from TS. So it seems that PUB can really take over for free. Huat liao.
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alidaud Senior	08-Mar-2019 15:42        alidaud About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Support 21 http://cakap.net/gann-square-of-9/?s=hyflux& cp=0.21
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des_khor Supreme	08-Mar-2019 15:36        des_khor About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Flexible   Mood: Yells: "Tell me who is God or Market Fortune Teller in this forum ??"
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	What PPP scheme ...??? Really no brain Hyflux management ! Only benefits PUB !!
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Starship Supreme	08-Mar-2019 15:24        Starship About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	MichaelSchenker      ( Date: 08-Mar-2019 15:11) Posted: Hyflux and Midas holders should go hug and console each other. Just like another Ponzi scheme exposed. Final nail? Which counter next?
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MichaelSchenker Master	08-Mar-2019 15:11        MichaelSchenker About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Hyflux and Midas holders should go hug and console each other. Just like another Ponzi scheme exposed. Final nail? Which counter next?
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