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warrenbuffet2018 Member	16-May-2019 18:12        warrenbuffet2018 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	I guess someone want to join the billion dollars club. To join billion dollars club, share must hit $4 and above. This might explain why someone are so concern about share price and  do whatever it takes... lie, company $$$ to support, super long halts.. This look like one of my favourite HK drama, almost reach but sadly ... it wont reach in this life time. Fish eye (cannot close) will result when return IC.   beng1102      ( Date: 16-May-2019 18:05) Posted: Good try!  But B COY CEO so far have not offloaded any share, on the contrary the loaded more shares.  You can verify with SGX announcement.  Don' t tell me that they are allow to avoid announcement of share sales.  Don' t tell me that they sue proxy accounts to offload shares as the filing show increase percentage of holdings in their deemed interest. softdrink      ( Date: 16-May-2019 17:03) Posted: Well said! To be honest, ppl should thank you for the free lesson you give
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beng1102 Elite	16-May-2019 18:05        beng1102 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Good try!  But B COY CEO so far have not offloaded any share, on the contrary the loaded more shares.  You can verify with SGX announcement.  Don' t tell me that they are allow to avoid announcement of share sales.  Don' t tell me that they sue proxy accounts to offload shares as the filing show increase percentage of holdings in their deemed interest. softdrink      ( Date: 16-May-2019 17:03) Posted: Well said! To be honest, ppl should thank you for the free lesson you give. warrenbuffet2018      ( Date: 16-May-2019 16:52) Posted: Sharing a creative story How can a B company CEO want to make gain from share price? B COY inflate the revenue. 2015 10 millions to 25 millions 2016 10 millions millions to 37.5 millions (up 50% from 2015) 2017 10 millions millions to 56.25 millions (up 50% from 2016) 2018 10 millions to 84.375 millions (up 50% from 2017) B COY inflate profit 2015  5 millions to 7.5 millions 2016  5 millions millions to 11.25 millions  (up 50% from 2015) 2017  5 millions millions to 16.875 millions  (up 50% from 2016) 2018  5 millions to 25.3125 millions(up 50% from 2017) Where is the money from inflated profit? B COY CEO folk out own pocket money, from 2015-2018, cost about 40 millions On the other hand, B COY CEO can take back money via dividen and high salary (justifiable due to super 50% growth every year). Why do this stupid thing??? B COY just present this super jumbo 2015-2018 result to investors and their share price will soar. All investors (even toilet cleaners) will jump in to buy B COY share price at whatever prices it takes. B COY share hit $4 or more, the market value will be $3 billions.  So CEO share now worth $1.2 billions. Find a good timing and offload the shares. Possible become richest person in Singapore. If dont have this inflated revenue/profit B COY share price will be worth 50-100 millions or $0.09-0.18 per share CEO share will worth 20 millions instead of $1.2 billions WHO IS THE WINNER NOW??? Who so stupid to suffer $20 m
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bernardc Elite	16-May-2019 18:05        bernardc About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Just wait for audit report.. If cash is there..great.. If not Dora dear will go to jail..hope so..n banned from sgx
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Sin_Cos_Tan Veteran	16-May-2019 17:47        Sin_Cos_Tan About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 1  Alert Admin	Hope you are don' t mislead the ppl here especially those without financial knowledge. You mentioned BW name 2 times in the first para. bayduck      ( Date: 16-May-2019 16:14) Posted:  Your understanding is correct. I did entertain that possibility before, and made the argument that .... maybe BW is booking $2 profits even though it' s actually only $1, then proceed to pay 80 cents in dividends.  In that case, BW can be both inflating profits and paying dividends at the same time.    Sin_Cos_Tan      ( Date: 16-May-2019 16:52) Posted: For Full yr 2018, Earning per share (EPS) was abt 5 cents.   Sin_Cos_Tan      ( Date: 16-May-2019 16:28) Posted: IMPOSIBLE,  how to pay 80c dividend when your NAV is only 30c ??
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JarBinx Member	16-May-2019 17:39        JarBinx About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Yes.. that' s why it' s very important for BWL to prove independence i.e. Changsha Best cannot sell finish, its their taiji and not BWL (the 100m revenue will then be genuine). curious_moo      ( Date: 16-May-2019 16:01) Posted: have anyone consider the the below case which i thought BR is trying to highlight, or is my understanding totally wrong. e.g. BWL sold 100mil to Changsha, and Changsha managed to re-distribute out 70mil thru MLM or direct sales or whatever. if Changsha is really controlled by BWL but posed as an independent wing (via " investments" from BIL), the book on BWL will mention 100mil as revenue (inflated), but in actual fact their revenue is the actual sales from Changsha best which is only 70mil. the rest are just inventory reported on Changsha best books.  bayduck      ( Date: 16-May-2019 15:42) Posted: Agree with you. I think the crux is whether the transactions are genuine, and are done at market rates (i.e. whether revenues and profits from Changsha are inflated). If transactions are genuine, then at most you can only give BW a small punishment for not being forthcoming with the BIL disclosure
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warrenbuffet2018 Member	16-May-2019 17:29        warrenbuffet2018 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	I urged all do not listen to this man, You are buying into a company who like to find loop hole on laws/rules. BIL or China bussiness are an example. There might be more to come ... YES, doing that can get short terms gain but long terms lost. Short terms gain is over (share fly from $0.10 to $3.40) Those lucky one who bought low sell high already enjoy life. I saw couples of those taking first class to worldwide. I saw one donate to charity with name BWI (at that time i wondering what name is that, now i understand) Now is LONG TERMS LOST. What you can do now is minimise your lost.   michaeltan      ( Date: 16-May-2019 17:12) Posted: Save your analogy. I strongly believe the sales revenue BW is genuide. Otherwise the management team don' t need to defend vigorously. The Company takes its compliance obligations seriously, and developed the Franchise Model with advice from its professional advisors. The Company&rsquo s legal counsel in China, Beijing Dacheng Law Offices, LLP (part of the global law firm Dentons), one of the largest law firms in China, has opined that the business of the Group under the Franchise Model complies with applicable laws and regulations. The Company will seek a separate legal opinion on whether its current distribution model in China constitutes direct selling under the applicable laws and regulations and will make further announcements to update shareholders in due course. The Company recognises that laws and regulations, as well as the interpretation and application thereof, may change over time and/or in response to current developments. In order to ensure compliance and the security of its business and operations, the Company will continue to review the implementation of the Franchise Model, and will not hesitate to continue to fine tune and further develop the Franchise Model in order to remain effective and ensure compliance with applicable laws and regulations.     warrenbuffet2018      ( Date: 16-May-2019 16:52) Posted: Sharing a creative story How can a B company CEO want to make gain from share price? B COY inflate the revenue. 2015 10 millions to 25 millions 2016 10 millions millions to 37.5 millions (up 50% from 2015) 2017 10 millions millions to 56.25 millions (up 50% from 2016) 2018 10 millions to 84.375 millions (up 50% from 2017) B COY inflate profit 2015  5 millions to 7.5 millions 2016  5 millions millions to 11.25 millions  (up 50% from 2015) 2017  5 millions millions to 16.875 millions  (up 50% from 2016) 2018  5 millions to 25.3125 millions(up 50% from 2017) Where is the money from inflated profit? B COY CEO folk out own pocket money, from 2015-2018, cost about 40 millions On the other hand, B COY CEO can take back money via dividen and high salary (justifiable due to super 50% growth every year). Why do this stupid thing??? B COY just present this super jumbo 2015-2018 result to investors and their share price will soar. All investors (even toilet cleaners) will jump in to buy B COY share price at whatever prices it takes. B COY share hit $4 or more, the market value will be $3 billions.  So CEO share now worth $1.2 billions. Find a good timing and offload the shares. Possible become richest person in Singapore. If dont have this inflated revenue/profit B COY share price will be worth 50-100 millions or $0.09-0.18 per share CEO share will worth 20 millions instead of $1.2 billions WHO IS THE WINNER NOW??? Who so stupid to suffer $20 m
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bayduck Member	16-May-2019 17:23        bayduck About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Obviously I am not quoting the actual profits and dividends, just using arbitrary numbers to illustrate a concept. Sin_Cos_Tan      ( Date: 16-May-2019 16:52) Posted: For Full yr 2018, Earning per share (EPS) was abt 5 cents.   Sin_Cos_Tan      ( Date: 16-May-2019 16:28) Posted: IMPOSIBLE,  how to pay 80c dividend when your NAV is only 30c ??
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warrenbuffet2018 Member	16-May-2019 17:12        warrenbuffet2018 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	This is a long time plan. As long as dont kana tagets by short sellers,  the plan might work. This is just like Thanos' s plan, if dont kana Avengers, his plan will work. AND wipe out 1/2 of human beings. For B COY CEO, if share prices fall, use COY $$$ to support  at whatever it takes. Outcome ... too bad also kana 2 members of avenger so far Black Pather & Vision   warrenbuffet2018      ( Date: 16-May-2019 16:52) Posted: Sharing a creative story How can a B company CEO want to make gain from share price? B COY inflate the revenue. 2015 10 millions to 25 millions 2016 10 millions millions to 37.5 millions (up 50% from 2015) 2017 10 millions millions to 56.25 millions (up 50% from 2016) 2018 10 millions to 84.375 millions (up 50% from 2017) B COY inflate profit 2015  5 millions to 7.5 millions 2016  5 millions millions to 11.25 millions  (up 50% from 2015) 2017  5 millions millions to 16.875 millions  (up 50% from 2016) 2018  5 millions to 25.3125 millions(up 50% from 2017) Where is the money from inflated profit? B COY CEO folk out own pocket money, from 2015-2018, cost about 40 millions On the other hand, B COY CEO can take back money via dividen and high salary (justifiable due to super 50% growth every year). Why do this stupid thing??? B COY just present this super jumbo 2015-2018 result to investors and their share price will soar. All investors (even toilet cleaners) will jump in to buy B COY share price at whatever prices it takes. B COY share hit $4 or more, the market value will be $3 billions.  So CEO share now worth $1.2 billions. Find a good timing and offload the shares. Possible become richest person in Singapore. If dont have this inflated revenue/profit B COY share price will be worth 50-100 millions or $0.09-0.18 per share CEO share will worth 20 millions instead of $1.2 billions WHO IS THE WINNER NOW??? Who so stupid to suffer $20 mi destinykraze      ( Date: 16-May-2019 16:23) Posted: I' m looking at the short term, when it resumes trading in 1-2 months.
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michaeltan Master	16-May-2019 17:12        michaeltan About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Fundamental   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Save your analogy. I strongly believe the sales revenue BW is genuide. Otherwise the management team don' t need to defend vigorously. The Company takes its compliance obligations seriously, and developed the Franchise Model with advice from its professional advisors. The Company&rsquo s legal counsel in China, Beijing Dacheng Law Offices, LLP (part of the global law firm Dentons), one of the largest law firms in China, has opined that the business of the Group under the Franchise Model complies with applicable laws and regulations. The Company will seek a separate legal opinion on whether its current distribution model in China constitutes direct selling under the applicable laws and regulations and will make further announcements to update shareholders in due course. The Company recognises that laws and regulations, as well as the interpretation and application thereof, may change over time and/or in response to current developments. In order to ensure compliance and the security of its business and operations, the Company will continue to review the implementation of the Franchise Model, and will not hesitate to continue to fine tune and further develop the Franchise Model in order to remain effective and ensure compliance with applicable laws and regulations.     warrenbuffet2018      ( Date: 16-May-2019 16:52) Posted: Sharing a creative story How can a B company CEO want to make gain from share price? B COY inflate the revenue. 2015 10 millions to 25 millions 2016 10 millions millions to 37.5 millions (up 50% from 2015) 2017 10 millions millions to 56.25 millions (up 50% from 2016) 2018 10 millions to 84.375 millions (up 50% from 2017) B COY inflate profit 2015  5 millions to 7.5 millions 2016  5 millions millions to 11.25 millions  (up 50% from 2015) 2017  5 millions millions to 16.875 millions  (up 50% from 2016) 2018  5 millions to 25.3125 millions(up 50% from 2017) Where is the money from inflated profit? B COY CEO folk out own pocket money, from 2015-2018, cost about 40 millions On the other hand, B COY CEO can take back money via dividen and high salary (justifiable due to super 50% growth every year). Why do this stupid thing??? B COY just present this super jumbo 2015-2018 result to investors and their share price will soar. All investors (even toilet cleaners) will jump in to buy B COY share price at whatever prices it takes. B COY share hit $4 or more, the market value will be $3 billions.  So CEO share now worth $1.2 billions. Find a good timing and offload the shares. Possible become richest person in Singapore. If dont have this inflated revenue/profit B COY share price will be worth 50-100 millions or $0.09-0.18 per share CEO share will worth 20 millions instead of $1.2 billions WHO IS THE WINNER NOW??? Who so stupid to suffer $20 mi destinykraze      ( Date: 16-May-2019 16:23) Posted: I' m looking at the short term, when it resumes trading in 1-2 months.
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Sin_Cos_Tan Veteran	16-May-2019 17:09        Sin_Cos_Tan About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	1. 1st Qtr 2019 EPS : 1.88 cents 2. PWC now have to report solely to SGX RegCo and not as arranged previously  (report to BWL audit committee & SGX) 3. Expand the scope of PWC review  FY2015 - FY2018 and not FY2018 only.   michaeltan      ( Date: 16-May-2019 16:46) Posted: Perhaps BW can sell their product here for those who are thick skin required an effective treatment to make your skin soft, smooth and glowing as to look ever younger and handsome. To my understanding , the Primary Import Agent has ceased in operation and was replaced with BWL Franchise Model. Your concern is already raised by Bonitas. Bonitas claims that the Company&rsquo s management secretly controlled and created the Primary Import Agent in order to fabricate sales and fraudulently overstate the Group&rsquo s profits in FY2017. However, since the Group&rsquo s transition to the Franchise Model in June 2018 and the replacement of the Primary Import Agent by BWL China, the Group&rsquo s sales and profits have increased substantially, as shown in the Company&rsquo s announcement of the Group&rsquo s unaudited financial statements for 3Q201819 and 4Q201820. The fact that the Company&rsquo s sales and profits have increased substantially since the replacement of the Primary Import Agent disproves Bonitas&rsquo claim that the Primary Import Agent was created to fabricate sales and inflate profits. Furthermore, based on PwC&rsquo s interim update as of 12 April 2019, the Board and the Audit Committee understand that PwC has not identified any matters that may have a material impact on the Group&rsquo s unaudited financial statements for FY201821.  Sin_Cos_Tan      ( Date: 16-May-2019 16:28) Posted: IMPOSIBLE,  how to pay 80c dividend when your NAV is only 30c ??
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softdrink Member	16-May-2019 17:03        softdrink About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Well said! To be honest, ppl should thank you for the free lesson you give. warrenbuffet2018      ( Date: 16-May-2019 16:52) Posted: Sharing a creative story How can a B company CEO want to make gain from share price? B COY inflate the revenue. 2015 10 millions to 25 millions 2016 10 millions millions to 37.5 millions (up 50% from 2015) 2017 10 millions millions to 56.25 millions (up 50% from 2016) 2018 10 millions to 84.375 millions (up 50% from 2017) B COY inflate profit 2015  5 millions to 7.5 millions 2016  5 millions millions to 11.25 millions  (up 50% from 2015) 2017  5 millions millions to 16.875 millions  (up 50% from 2016) 2018  5 millions to 25.3125 millions(up 50% from 2017) Where is the money from inflated profit? B COY CEO folk out own pocket money, from 2015-2018, cost about 40 millions On the other hand, B COY CEO can take back money via dividen and high salary (justifiable due to super 50% growth every year). Why do this stupid thing??? B COY just present this super jumbo 2015-2018 result to investors and their share price will soar. All investors (even toilet cleaners) will jump in to buy B COY share price at whatever prices it takes. B COY share hit $4 or more, the market value will be $3 billions.  So CEO share now worth $1.2 billions. Find a good timing and offload the shares. Possible become richest person in Singapore. If dont have this inflated revenue/profit B COY share price will be worth 50-100 millions or $0.09-0.18 per share CEO share will worth 20 millions instead of $1.2 billions WHO IS THE WINNER NOW??? Who so stupid to suffer $20 mi destinykraze      ( Date: 16-May-2019 16:23) Posted: I' m looking at the short term, when it resumes trading in 1-2 months.
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warrenbuffet2018 Member	16-May-2019 16:52        warrenbuffet2018 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Sharing a creative story How can a B company CEO want to make gain from share price? B COY inflate the revenue. 2015 10 millions to 25 millions 2016 10 millions millions to 37.5 millions (up 50% from 2015) 2017 10 millions millions to 56.25 millions (up 50% from 2016) 2018 10 millions to 84.375 millions (up 50% from 2017) B COY inflate profit 2015  5 millions to 7.5 millions 2016  5 millions millions to 11.25 millions  (up 50% from 2015) 2017  5 millions millions to 16.875 millions  (up 50% from 2016) 2018  5 millions to 25.3125 millions(up 50% from 2017) Where is the money from inflated profit? B COY CEO folk out own pocket money, from 2015-2018, cost about 40 millions On the other hand, B COY CEO can take back money via dividen and high salary (justifiable due to super 50% growth every year). Why do this stupid thing??? B COY just present this super jumbo 2015-2018 result to investors and their share price will soar. All investors (even toilet cleaners) will jump in to buy B COY share price at whatever prices it takes. B COY share hit $4 or more, the market value will be $3 billions.  So CEO share now worth $1.2 billions. Find a good timing and offload the shares. Possible become richest person in Singapore. If dont have this inflated revenue/profit B COY share price will be worth 50-100 millions or $0.09-0.18 per share CEO share will worth 20 millions instead of $1.2 billions WHO IS THE WINNER NOW??? Who so stupid to suffer $20 mi destinykraze      ( Date: 16-May-2019 16:23) Posted: I' m looking at the short term, when it resumes trading in 1-2 months.  bayduck      ( Date: 16-May-2019 16:17) Posted: I' m actually more pessimistic than you haha. Thinking more in the range of halving (i.e. 80 cents
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Sin_Cos_Tan Veteran	16-May-2019 16:52        Sin_Cos_Tan About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	For Full yr 2018, Earning per share (EPS) was abt 5 cents.   Sin_Cos_Tan      ( Date: 16-May-2019 16:28) Posted: IMPOSIBLE,  how to pay 80c dividend when your NAV is only 30c ??   bayduck      ( Date: 16-May-2019 16:14) Posted: Your understanding is correct. I did entertain that possibility before, and made the argument that maybe BW is booking $2 profits even though it' s actually only $1, then proceed to pay 80 cents in dividends. In that case, BW can be both inflating profits and paying dividends at the same time.  But if it' s that' s the case, then I should see a widening divergence between aggregate accounting earnings and cash earnings (because if actual sales is 70M instead of reported 100M, BW will only get 70M in cash, no matter what the accounting numbers say), which I am not seeing if you look across the last 5 years.  Not saying that just because there' s no divergence it means earnings are not inflated (since the cash number itself could be faked, just harder to do so), but it reduces the probability a little
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michaeltan Master	16-May-2019 16:50        michaeltan About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Fundamental   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	If can ask the audit firm to verify 5 years of accounting will take how long? You should be thankful if they can do it wihtin 6 months. destinykraze      ( Date: 16-May-2019 16:23) Posted: I' m looking at the short term, when it resumes trading in 1-2 months.  bayduck      ( Date: 16-May-2019 16:17) Posted: I' m actually more pessimistic than you haha. Thinking more in the range of halving (i.e. 80 cents
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michaeltan Master	16-May-2019 16:46        michaeltan About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Fundamental   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Perhaps BW can sell their product here for those who are thick skin required an effective treatment to make your skin soft, smooth and glowing as to look ever younger and handsome. To my understanding , the Primary Import Agent has ceased in operation and was replaced with BWL Franchise Model. Your concern is already raised by Bonitas. Bonitas claims that the Company&rsquo s management secretly controlled and created the Primary Import Agent in order to fabricate sales and fraudulently overstate the Group&rsquo s profits in FY2017. However, since the Group&rsquo s transition to the Franchise Model in June 2018 and the replacement of the Primary Import Agent by BWL China, the Group&rsquo s sales and profits have increased substantially, as shown in the Company&rsquo s announcement of the Group&rsquo s unaudited financial statements for 3Q201819 and 4Q201820. The fact that the Company&rsquo s sales and profits have increased substantially since the replacement of the Primary Import Agent disproves Bonitas&rsquo claim that the Primary Import Agent was created to fabricate sales and inflate profits. Furthermore, based on PwC&rsquo s interim update as of 12 April 2019, the Board and the Audit Committee understand that PwC has not identified any matters that may have a material impact on the Group&rsquo s unaudited financial statements for FY201821.  Sin_Cos_Tan      ( Date: 16-May-2019 16:28) Posted: IMPOSIBLE,  how to pay 80c dividend when your NAV is only 30c ??   bayduck      ( Date: 16-May-2019 16:14) Posted: Your understanding is correct. I did entertain that possibility before, and made the argument that maybe BW is booking $2 profits even though it' s actually only $1, then proceed to pay 80 cents in dividends. In that case, BW can be both inflating profits and paying dividends at the same time.  But if it' s that' s the case, then I should see a widening divergence between aggregate accounting earnings and cash earnings (because if actual sales is 70M instead of reported 100M, BW will only get 70M in cash, no matter what the accounting numbers say), which I am not seeing if you look across the last 5 years.  Not saying that just because there' s no divergence it means earnings are not inflated (since the cash number itself could be faked, just harder to do so), but it reduces the probability a little
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Sin_Cos_Tan Veteran	16-May-2019 16:28        Sin_Cos_Tan About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	IMPOSIBLE,  how to pay 80c dividend when your NAV is only 30c ??   bayduck      ( Date: 16-May-2019 16:14) Posted: Your understanding is correct. I did entertain that possibility before, and made the argument that maybe BW is booking $2 profits even though it' s actually only $1, then proceed to pay 80 cents in dividends. In that case, BW can be both inflating profits and paying dividends at the same time.  But if it' s that' s the case, then I should see a widening divergence between aggregate accounting earnings and cash earnings (because if actual sales is 70M instead of reported 100M, BW will only get 70M in cash, no matter what the accounting numbers say), which I am not seeing if you look across the last 5 years.  Not saying that just because there' s no divergence it means earnings are not inflated (since the cash number itself could be faked, just harder to do so), but it reduces the probability a little. curious_moo      ( Date: 16-May-2019 16:01) Posted: have anyone consider the the below case which i thought BR is trying to highlight, or is my understanding totally wrong. e.g. BWL sold 100mil to Changsha, and Changsha managed to re-distribute out 70mil thru MLM or direct sales or whatever. if Changsha is really controlled by BWL but posed as an independent wing (via " investments" from BIL), the book on BWL will mention 100mil as revenue (inflated), but in actual fact their revenue is the actual sales from Changsha best which is only 70mil. the rest are just inventory reported on Changsha best books.
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destinykraze Elite	16-May-2019 16:23        destinykraze About Contact  Quote this Post!   Yells: "Reality is only a matter of perception"
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	I' m looking at the short term, when it resumes trading in 1-2 months.  bayduck      ( Date: 16-May-2019 16:17) Posted: I' m actually more pessimistic than you haha. Thinking more in the range of halving (i.e. 80 cents) destinykraze      ( Date: 16-May-2019 16:13) Posted: I' m not those guy putting $0.47, $0.60 TP. But at the current stage I think the realistic range is around $1.10- $1.40. It really depends on how the situation develops
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bayduck Member	16-May-2019 16:17        bayduck About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	I' m actually more pessimistic than you haha. Thinking more in the range of halving (i.e. 80 cents) destinykraze      ( Date: 16-May-2019 16:13) Posted: I' m not those guy putting $0.47, $0.60 TP. But at the current stage I think the realistic range is around $1.10- $1.40. It really depends on how the situation develops. bayduck      ( Date: 16-May-2019 15:58) Posted: Agree as well. If the businses model in China is deemed as MLM-ish, then investors should basically write off the entire China revenue stream, and basically value BW as if it had never made its foray into China. My personal view is that BW is not worth zero even if the BIL and MLM issues turn out to be true. The business itself has a clean balance sheet, and there are cashflows from non-China operations. So a big haircut to the price for sure because you lose China and you put on a discount for corporate governance deficiencies, but not zero
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Sin_Cos_Tan Veteran	16-May-2019 16:15        Sin_Cos_Tan About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	suka ee kon....lol   michaeltan      ( Date: 16-May-2019 12:32) Posted: What is the intention of Changsa low responsibility? Perhaps for tax avoidance? Difficulties and mitigation of risks doing business with China counterparts? Important is that the transaction is genuide and in accordance with company appointment agreement.   bayduck      ( Date: 16-May-2019 11:59) Posted: 1) Legal rep' s status in China is basically emperor of the company, responsible for all things. So many cases of S-Chips gone case even though CEO is Singaporean, because the legal rep of the operating sub is PRC and basically just took control 2) BIL also has 100% claims to profits of Changsha, being the sole shareholder. Yes, many people invest more than $100,000 in a stock, but don' t get involved, but that' s such a bad analogy. The $100,000 is only share capital, and if Changsha is really importing hundreds of millions from BW, the profits must also be huge. BIL is entitled to 100% of the profits, so the monetary value is definitely beyond $100,000. A better analogy would be that you invest $100,000 as sole shareholder to start a business, but the business then grew to make revenues in hundreds of millions, making many millions in profits. You, as the sole shareholder, is entitled to ALL the profits. It' s a hard sell to convince me you do not exercise control or influence, or that you completely heck care the business. If you had been a minority shareholder, then it' s more believable
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bayduck Member	16-May-2019 16:14        bayduck About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Your understanding is correct. I did entertain that possibility before, and made the argument that maybe BW is booking $2 profits even though it' s actually only $1, then proceed to pay 80 cents in dividends. In that case, BW can be both inflating profits and paying dividends at the same time.  But if it' s that' s the case, then I should see a widening divergence between aggregate accounting earnings and cash earnings (because if actual sales is 70M instead of reported 100M, BW will only get 70M in cash, no matter what the accounting numbers say), which I am not seeing if you look across the last 5 years.  Not saying that just because there' s no divergence it means earnings are not inflated (since the cash number itself could be faked, just harder to do so), but it reduces the probability a little. curious_moo      ( Date: 16-May-2019 16:01) Posted: have anyone consider the the below case which i thought BR is trying to highlight, or is my understanding totally wrong. e.g. BWL sold 100mil to Changsha, and Changsha managed to re-distribute out 70mil thru MLM or direct sales or whatever. if Changsha is really controlled by BWL but posed as an independent wing (via " investments" from BIL), the book on BWL will mention 100mil as revenue (inflated), but in actual fact their revenue is the actual sales from Changsha best which is only 70mil. the rest are just inventory reported on Changsha best books.  bayduck      ( Date: 16-May-2019 15:42) Posted: Agree with you. I think the crux is whether the transactions are genuine, and are done at market rates (i.e. whether revenues and profits from Changsha are inflated). If transactions are genuine, then at most you can only give BW a small punishment for not being forthcoming with the BIL disclosure
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