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kerier Veteran	13-Mar-2017 19:36        kerier About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	The banks will lose more money than they made through single digit percent loans and front-end fees. Do you think Ezra, Swiber, Swissco etc buy their vessels, equipments or repair their vessels in Singapore? Nope they don' t. Their vessels don' t work in Singapore, they work where the oil fields are - in the Middle East, Africa, Europe, Gulf, SEA. Do they repair or service their vessels in Singapore?  If the gov is willing to part with NOL which they owned for a damn long time, what makes you think they will rescue these 3rd party companies? They can still focus on the maritime industry, ports, bunkering, shipbuilding, oil refining, oil storage, banking, wealth management, technology etc. When you have to cut loss, you better CUT LOSS.  earlybird14      ( Date: 13-Mar-2017 19:17) Posted: The implication of 1 industry gone in Singapore will be extended to other industry like transportation and storage( offshore platform transportation and equipment transportation from warehouse to yard and offshore hub and fuel refilling and this and that) finance and insurance( see how much debt involved with banks and offshore companies, although banks are in trouble now but in the past few years, how much money banks earned from those company through financing and insurance for those vessels and people working in that industry?) business service( those people working in offshore companies no need to be served? Expatriate staying in Singapore, contribute rental fee for condo and all kind of services) manufacturing( equipment on board the vessels are from factories and some in Singapore factories) Don't rescue this industry? Gov better think what else can fill the gap especially all industry are running with cycle and no one can be forever peak. Don't be just a downturn and abandon this industry. So next semiconductor and electronic bubble(going to come soon) so gov abandon this industry as well? 😁 😁 😁 😁 earlybird14      ( Date: 13-Mar-2017 19:06) Posted: 😁 😁 😁 let's see. Many offshore MNCs had moved out and said bye bye to Singapore. Gov don't try to rescue local offshore companies, once all gone, the whole industry will say bye bye to Singapore forever even next oil and offshore boom also will be none of SINGAPORE business. do you really think our gov has plenty of choice to create jobs? How much GDP offshore plus shipbuilding contribute to Singapore at peak? Especially the period in 2009-2013 when semi conductors and electronic industry was very down? More than 10%, this sectors created many jobs more than you think in 2009-2013. Do you think gov don't scare next big scale of semi con and electronic industry down or recession? If down what industry can create jobs? You really think our gov has plenty of choice or the world has plenty of industry? 😁 😁 😁 so gov will rescue and they have to since they know semiconductor and electronic industry cycle is at peak and anytime will come down
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Wind22i Supreme	13-Mar-2017 19:26        Wind22i About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	.better runnnn before too late.....
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Practicalist Member	13-Mar-2017 19:26        Practicalist About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Excellent analysis by earlybird. Hope MTI sees it and I' m quite sure government officials have these thoughts too. Whether to execute these thoughts, it will certainly require lots of scenario planning, risks assessment among many other factors. earlybird14      ( Date: 13-Mar-2017 19:17) Posted: The implication of 1 industry gone in Singapore will be extended to other industry like transportation and storage( offshore platform transportation and equipment transportation from warehouse to yard and offshore hub and fuel refilling and this and that) finance and insurance( see how much debt involved with banks and offshore companies, although banks are in trouble now but in the past few years, how much money banks earned from those company through financing and insurance for those vessels and people working in that industry?) business service( those people working in offshore companies no need to be served? Expatriate staying in Singapore, contribute rental fee for condo and all kind of services) manufacturing( equipment on board the vessels are from factories and some in Singapore factories) Don't rescue this industry? Gov better think what else can fill the gap especially all industry are running with cycle and no one can be forever peak. Don't be just a downturn and abandon this industry. So next semiconductor and electronic bubble(going to come soon) so gov abandon this industry as well? 😁 😁 😁 😁 earlybird14      ( Date: 13-Mar-2017 19:06) Posted: 😁 😁 😁 let's see. Many offshore MNCs had moved out and said bye bye to Singapore. Gov don't try to rescue local offshore companies, once all gone, the whole industry will say bye bye to Singapore forever even next oil and offshore boom also will be none of SINGAPORE business. do you really think our gov has plenty of choice to create jobs? How much GDP offshore plus shipbuilding contribute to Singapore at peak? Especially the period in 2009-2013 when semi conductors and electronic industry was very down? More than 10%, this sectors created many jobs more than you think in 2009-2013. Do you think gov don't scare next big scale of semi con and electronic industry down or recession? If down what industry can create jobs? You really think our gov has plenty of choice or the world has plenty of industry? 😁 😁 😁 so gov will rescue and they have to since they know semiconductor and electronic industry cycle is at peak and anytime will come down
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earlybird14 Supreme	13-Mar-2017 19:17        earlybird14 About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Combined   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	The implication of 1 industry gone in Singapore will be extended to other industry like transportation and storage( offshore platform transportation and equipment transportation from warehouse to yard and offshore hub and fuel refilling and this and that) finance and insurance( see how much debt involved with banks and offshore companies, although banks are in trouble now but in the past few years, how much money banks earned from those company through financing and insurance for those vessels and people working in that industry?) business service( those people working in offshore companies no need to be served? Expatriate staying in Singapore, contribute rental fee for condo and all kind of services) manufacturing( equipment on board the vessels are from factories and some in Singapore factories) Don't rescue this industry? Gov better think what else can fill the gap especially all industry are running with cycle and no one can be forever peak. Don't be just a downturn and abandon this industry. So next semiconductor and electronic bubble(going to come soon) so gov abandon this industry as well? 😁 😁 😁 😁 earlybird14      ( Date: 13-Mar-2017 19:06) Posted: 😁 😁 😁 let's see. Many offshore MNCs had moved out and said bye bye to Singapore. Gov don't try to rescue local offshore companies, once all gone, the whole industry will say bye bye to Singapore forever even next oil and offshore boom also will be none of SINGAPORE business. do you really think our gov has plenty of choice to create jobs? How much GDP offshore plus shipbuilding contribute to Singapore at peak? Especially the period in 2009-2013 when semi conductors and electronic industry was very down? More than 10%, this sectors created many jobs more than you think in 2009-2013. Do you think gov don't scare next big scale of semi con and electronic industry down or recession? If down what industry can create jobs? You really think our gov has plenty of choice or the world has plenty of industry? 😁 😁 😁 so gov will rescue and they have to since they know semiconductor and electronic industry cycle is at peak and anytime will come down. kerier      ( Date: 13-Mar-2017 18:11) Posted: No, the government will not step in to rescue these falling O& G companies. It already has sufficient exposure through Keppel and Sembmarine and how many local staff does EZRA have? Probably more foreign crew and expats on their paylist than local staff plus the warning signs are all there for shareholders to exit.  If you think there will be a white knight, yep if the banks are foolish enough to continue lending because the industry players will just wait for the vessels to be arrested and come to sale on the market.
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alishan Senior	13-Mar-2017 19:17        alishan About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	SGX, MBS & Genting will be the future of SG economy, like in Macao.   SGX needs more counters like Ezra so rich Sing-ka-poreans can throw their money in.   For them losing money is chap chap sway.   O& G companies can close down, but SGX & casinos will survive.   Mai kai!   earlybird14      ( Date: 13-Mar-2017 19:06) Posted: 😁 😁 😁 let's see. Many offshore MNCs had moved out and said bye bye to Singapore. Gov don't try to rescue local offshore companies, once all gone, the whole industry will say bye bye to Singapore forever even next oil and offshore boom also will be none of SINGAPORE business. do you really think our gov has plenty of choice to create jobs? How much GDP offshore plus shipbuilding contribute to Singapore at peak? Especially the period in 2009-2013 when semi conductors and electronic industry was very down? More than 10%, this sectors created many jobs more than you think in 2009-2013. Do you think gov don't scare next big scale of semi con and electronic industry down or recession? If down what industry can create jobs? You really think our gov has plenty of choice or the world has plenty of industry? 😁 😁 😁 so gov will rescue and they have to since they know semiconductor and electronic industry cycle is at peak and anytime will come down. kerier      ( Date: 13-Mar-2017 18:11) Posted: No, the government will not step in to rescue these falling O& G companies. It already has sufficient exposure through Keppel and Sembmarine and how many local staff does EZRA have? Probably more foreign crew and expats on their paylist than local staff plus the warning signs are all there for shareholders to exit.  If you think there will be a white knight, yep if the banks are foolish enough to continue lending because the industry players will just wait for the vessels to be arrested and come to sale on the market.
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zandlery Supreme	13-Mar-2017 19:15        zandlery About Contact  Quote this Post!   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	If government step in...they are risking the taxpayer money. Lose certain percentage of job vs wraith of the voting citizens..... Think it is quite obvious how the Gov will react on failing O&G companies. Last time GIC lose money already curse n swear by many...... It not as if those times when oil market is booming, singapore Gov did much to attract offshore companies to station in Singapore. It because Singapore is in a strategic position and have advantage for those companies to mobilise their asset so many well know offshore companies choose to be here. So try not to over read things. Don't think government intervene will make much different. Not unless oil price go up....
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earlybird14 Supreme	13-Mar-2017 19:06        earlybird14 About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Combined   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	😁 😁 😁 let's see. Many offshore MNCs had moved out and said bye bye to Singapore. Gov don't try to rescue local offshore companies, once all gone, the whole industry will say bye bye to Singapore forever even next oil and offshore boom also will be none of SINGAPORE business. do you really think our gov has plenty of choice to create jobs? How much GDP offshore plus shipbuilding contribute to Singapore at peak? Especially the period in 2009-2013 when semi conductors and electronic industry was very down? More than 10%, this sectors created many jobs more than you think in 2009-2013. Do you think gov don't scare next big scale of semi con and electronic industry down or recession? If down what industry can create jobs? You really think our gov has plenty of choice or the world has plenty of industry? 😁 😁 😁 so gov will rescue and they have to since they know semiconductor and electronic industry cycle is at peak and anytime will come down. kerier      ( Date: 13-Mar-2017 18:11) Posted: No, the government will not step in to rescue these falling O& G companies. It already has sufficient exposure through Keppel and Sembmarine and how many local staff does EZRA have? Probably more foreign crew and expats on their paylist than local staff plus the warning signs are all there for shareholders to exit.  If you think there will be a white knight, yep if the banks are foolish enough to continue lending because the industry players will just wait for the vessels to be arrested and come to sale on the market. earlybird14      ( Date: 13-Mar-2017 15:50) Posted: No really. They were betting the offshore vessel boom by purchasing those vessels with fixed chartered rate contract from Ezra by expecting Ezra can pay them full charter rate at the same time to expect the vessel value can be appreciated. Worst come to worst take compensation and charter the vessel to other party 千 算 万 算 never expect the market so bad till Ezra got no money to pay them and cannot find anyone to charter the vessel, so now they only can turn their gun on Ezra and push all false to Ezra and would like to claim back all the money 190mio? How many same type of vessel can be purchased from open market? At least 2. So even though gov want to keep Ezra and Swiber afloat, they also must wait till these creditors who still leaving in the heaven go to hell first and buy from them at cheap price. Otherwise just ask 3 banks to consolidate the bad debt they have from Swiber and Ezra, then winding up both company assets and set up a new one with the assets from both company.
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kerier Veteran	13-Mar-2017 18:11        kerier About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	No, the government will not step in to rescue these falling O& G companies. It already has sufficient exposure through Keppel and Sembmarine and how many local staff does EZRA have? Probably more foreign crew and expats on their paylist than local staff plus the warning signs are all there for shareholders to exit.  If you think there will be a white knight, yep if the banks are foolish enough to continue lending because the industry players will just wait for the vessels to be arrested and come to sale on the market. earlybird14      ( Date: 13-Mar-2017 15:50) Posted: No really. They were betting the offshore vessel boom by purchasing those vessels with fixed chartered rate contract from Ezra by expecting Ezra can pay them full charter rate at the same time to expect the vessel value can be appreciated. Worst come to worst take compensation and charter the vessel to other party 千 算 万 算 never expect the market so bad till Ezra got no money to pay them and cannot find anyone to charter the vessel, so now they only can turn their gun on Ezra and push all false to Ezra and would like to claim back all the money 190mio? How many same type of vessel can be purchased from open market? At least 2. So even though gov want to keep Ezra and Swiber afloat, they also must wait till these creditors who still leaving in the heaven go to hell first and buy from them at cheap price. Otherwise just ask 3 banks to consolidate the bad debt they have from Swiber and Ezra, then winding up both company assets and set up a new one with the assets from both company. ahhuat08      ( Date: 13-Mar-2017 15:27) Posted: Y keep bringing pple to hell, thats not very nice you know. When they leased the vessel from Ezra, they did not have a crystal ball that could possibly foretell that Lion King will be in deep sheet as he is now. And why should our beloved G bail out such reckless entrepreneurs when they are responsible for their own downfall.
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happyharvest Elite	13-Mar-2017 18:06        happyharvest About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	When white Knight comes destinykraze      ( Date: 13-Mar-2017 17:49) Posted: People cashing out. Still have hope for Ezra?
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koala888 Member	13-Mar-2017 18:05        koala888 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Correction, should be director bonus instead of director fee koala888      ( Date: 13-Mar-2017 18:04) Posted: Why Ezra report no cash? Beco Lion Lee and his Father already drawn out a few millions each year as director fee. Poor thing for other executive director who is only allow to drawn 50% of their director fee in cash n another 50% in shares vested over three years period. Now they must be curse and swear for holding on to this useless share paper. joebloggs      ( Date: 13-Mar-2017 07:28) Posted: Extract from Straits Times article " KGI Securities Singapore analyst Joel Ng notes that Ezra has been reporting negative free cash flows in the past 10 years, even when oil prices were above US$100 a barrel. " Ezra leveraged up too much during the oil boom years, and the low oil price environment over the past two years dealt the final blow," he says, adding that the group' s persistently weak free cash flows have resulted in a " highly unsustainable" balance sheet. " Ezra basically wanted to compete against its peers funded with debt rather than equity. I would say it was blinded by its ambition and the fact that credit was readily available during that time," says Mr Ng. " Given the cyclical nature of the industry, a healthy balance sheet will make all the difference between surviving and winding down in a downturn." "
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koala888 Member	13-Mar-2017 18:04        koala888 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Why Ezra report no cash? Beco Lion Lee and his Father already drawn out a few millions each year as director fee. Poor thing for other executive director who is only allow to drawn 50% of their director fee in cash n another 50% in shares vested over three years period. Now they must be curse and swear for holding on to this useless share paper. joebloggs      ( Date: 13-Mar-2017 07:28) Posted: Extract from Straits Times article " KGI Securities Singapore analyst Joel Ng notes that Ezra has been reporting negative free cash flows in the past 10 years, even when oil prices were above US$100 a barrel. " Ezra leveraged up too much during the oil boom years, and the low oil price environment over the past two years dealt the final blow," he says, adding that the group' s persistently weak free cash flows have resulted in a " highly unsustainable" balance sheet. " Ezra basically wanted to compete against its peers funded with debt rather than equity. I would say it was blinded by its ambition and the fact that credit was readily available during that time," says Mr Ng. " Given the cyclical nature of the industry, a healthy balance sheet will make all the difference between surviving and winding down in a downturn." "
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destinykraze Elite	13-Mar-2017 17:49        destinykraze About Contact  Quote this Post!   Yells: "Reality is only a matter of perception"
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	People cashing out. Still have hope for Ezra?
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happyharvest Elite	13-Mar-2017 16:59        happyharvest About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	anyone can be in the mangement team but not everyone deserve that kind of compensation package. The system should change. This is the step to cost saving for the company. earlybird14      ( Date: 13-Mar-2017 15:50) Posted: No really. They were betting the offshore vessel boom by purchasing those vessels with fixed chartered rate contract from Ezra by expecting Ezra can pay them full charter rate at the same time to expect the vessel value can be appreciated. Worst come to worst take compensation and charter the vessel to other party 千 算 万 算 never expect the market so bad till Ezra got no money to pay them and cannot find anyone to charter the vessel, so now they only can turn their gun on Ezra and push all false to Ezra and would like to claim back all the money 190mio? How many same type of vessel can be purchased from open market? At least 2. So even though gov want to keep Ezra and Swiber afloat, they also must wait till these creditors who still leaving in the heaven go to hell first and buy from them at cheap price. Otherwise just ask 3 banks to consolidate the bad debt they have from Swiber and Ezra, then winding up both company assets and set up a new one with the assets from both company. ahhuat08      ( Date: 13-Mar-2017 15:27) Posted: Y keep bringing pple to hell, thats not very nice you know. When they leased the vessel from Ezra, they did not have a crystal ball that could possibly foretell that Lion King will be in deep sheet as he is now. And why should our beloved G bail out such reckless entrepreneurs when they are responsible for their own downfall.
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ahhuat08 Elite	13-Mar-2017 15:56        ahhuat08 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	U mean still can gamble? lionking      ( Date: 13-Mar-2017 15:52) Posted: still can invest?
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lionking Member	13-Mar-2017 15:52        lionking About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	still can invest?
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earlybird14 Supreme	13-Mar-2017 15:50        earlybird14 About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Combined   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	No really. They were betting the offshore vessel boom by purchasing those vessels with fixed chartered rate contract from Ezra by expecting Ezra can pay them full charter rate at the same time to expect the vessel value can be appreciated. Worst come to worst take compensation and charter the vessel to other party 千 算 万 算 never expect the market so bad till Ezra got no money to pay them and cannot find anyone to charter the vessel, so now they only can turn their gun on Ezra and push all false to Ezra and would like to claim back all the money 190mio? How many same type of vessel can be purchased from open market? At least 2. So even though gov want to keep Ezra and Swiber afloat, they also must wait till these creditors who still leaving in the heaven go to hell first and buy from them at cheap price. Otherwise just ask 3 banks to consolidate the bad debt they have from Swiber and Ezra, then winding up both company assets and set up a new one with the assets from both company. ahhuat08      ( Date: 13-Mar-2017 15:27) Posted: Y keep bringing pple to hell, thats not very nice you know. When they leased the vessel from Ezra, they did not have a crystal ball that could possibly foretell that Lion King will be in deep sheet as he is now. And why should our beloved G bail out such reckless entrepreneurs when they are responsible for their own downfall.     earlybird14      ( Date: 13-Mar-2017 12:39) Posted: Gov shall keep 1 offshore company to survive, may be Swiber or Ezra, let both file JM first and bring all creditors to hell, like the icbc, she should take her own risk by purchasing the vessel from Ezra, now come to claim 192mio from a company going to bankrupt and think they should hold zero risk in this downturn when they purchased the vessel? So bring all of them to hell, then buy back all those assets at cheap price and reform the offshore company with better management. Offshore is not dying completely just it take time to recover, however, we Singapore want to catch next book, we should not let this industry gone completely. I believe gov know what to do, just hope they don't spend too much on them.
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mepkoh Elite	13-Mar-2017 15:43        mepkoh About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	GENERAL AVERAGE SOUNDED,..... DYODD ysh2006      ( Date: 13-Mar-2017 15:41) Posted: Can float or sink two weeks' time will know....Link Energy never gave notice just halt and sink ...this one plenty of warning...if onboard need to anytime find a float.... ahhuat08      ( Date: 13-Mar-2017 15:27) Posted: Y keep bringing pple to hell, thats not very nice you know. When they leased the vessel from Ezra, they did not have a crystal ball that could possibly foretell that Lion King will be in deep sheet as he is now. And why should our beloved G bail out such reckless entrepreneurs when they are responsible for their own downfall.
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ysh2006 Supreme	13-Mar-2017 15:41        ysh2006 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Can float or sink two weeks' time will know....Link Energy never gave notice just halt and sink ...this one plenty of warning...if onboard need to anytime find a float.... ahhuat08      ( Date: 13-Mar-2017 15:27) Posted: Y keep bringing pple to hell, thats not very nice you know. When they leased the vessel from Ezra, they did not have a crystal ball that could possibly foretell that Lion King will be in deep sheet as he is now. And why should our beloved G bail out such reckless entrepreneurs when they are responsible for their own downfall.     earlybird14      ( Date: 13-Mar-2017 12:39) Posted: Gov shall keep 1 offshore company to survive, may be Swiber or Ezra, let both file JM first and bring all creditors to hell, like the icbc, she should take her own risk by purchasing the vessel from Ezra, now come to claim 192mio from a company going to bankrupt and think they should hold zero risk in this downturn when they purchased the vessel? So bring all of them to hell, then buy back all those assets at cheap price and reform the offshore company with better management. Offshore is not dying completely just it take time to recover, however, we Singapore want to catch next book, we should not let this industry gone completely. I believe gov know what to do, just hope they don't spend too much on them.
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ahhuat08 Elite	13-Mar-2017 15:27        ahhuat08 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Y keep bringing pple to hell, thats not very nice you know. When they leased the vessel from Ezra, they did not have a crystal ball that could possibly foretell that Lion King will be in deep sheet as he is now. And why should our beloved G bail out such reckless entrepreneurs when they are responsible for their own downfall.     earlybird14      ( Date: 13-Mar-2017 12:39) Posted: Gov shall keep 1 offshore company to survive, may be Swiber or Ezra, let both file JM first and bring all creditors to hell, like the icbc, she should take her own risk by purchasing the vessel from Ezra, now come to claim 192mio from a company going to bankrupt and think they should hold zero risk in this downturn when they purchased the vessel? So bring all of them to hell, then buy back all those assets at cheap price and reform the offshore company with better management. Offshore is not dying completely just it take time to recover, however, we Singapore want to catch next book, we should not let this industry gone completely. I believe gov know what to do, just hope they don't spend too much on them.
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Rangie79 Member	13-Mar-2017 15:18        Rangie79 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Ezra will be next Swiber. Becareful when trading the stocks.
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